I recently saw the video clip, the whole minute’s worth. Normally, I like to se a good butt-whoopin’, but, gosh, it wasn’t even long enough to be enjoyable. They just seem to roll around on the floor with the KF guy competely helpless.
Yes, the “Kung Fu” guy had his lunch eaten. Assuming that you were in his place, what would you have done once you hit the ground? I notice that he had his left arm free, which he used seemingly in an attempt to turn the MMA guys head to break his lock. Could he not have used it to hit the MMa guys flank, back of the neck, or maybe reach down and tried a groin strike/grab? (His arms are a little short…)
Of course, hindsight is 20/20. As for me, I would have cried and begged for my mommy.
First and foremost I wish people would stop calling him the “kung fu” guy. Its offensive to me.
Secondly, I would have not done the tap dancing texas two step he pulled in the beginning and that lame ass kick. This was an all too easy take down. The rest was just sad.
Fair enough,
Let’s say that the MMA guy rushed you, and before you could (Insert move here), you slipped or simply made a mistake and found yourself in the same position. What would you do? Or, is it too late, and it’s “Good night, Irene” for you?
If I were in his place? Well, I wouldn’t have fought. It was obvious that the kung fu practioner has never trained for a real situation, and was completely unprepared. He fought on the other guy’s terms and lost. Not a surprise, really.
Not that I would have done any better, but for the sake of discussion…
Little guy’s arms and legs didn’t seem to be working together on the ground. He was doing the ‘gut reaction’ of ‘try and pull this guy off me’ with his arms while ‘maybe I can also pull him off me with my legs’ bendy-spine deal; but they weren’t working together. If he wanted to do that with his legs, he should have lowered his free arm down to his opponent’s thigh/waist so the pulling off his arms would work along the same angle against the guy’s base as his legs were trying to work. In a different situation, this might also open up opportunities to pull your/his knife and/or do something funky to the family jewels, if that’s your bag. Pardon the pun. On the other hand, pardon the pun again, this might open little guy up for having his free arm pinned to him, making him even worse off. Also, with big guy crammed up in his armpit and big guy’s weight on his chest, he probably couldn’t muster much power with his upper body. So… the other reaction would have been to get his inside leg down inside big guy’s inside leg. Again, this lines up the vector for his arm’s and leg’s pulling to work more in unison. Also, the leg’s pulling would directly work against big buy’s base, which is firmly planted there in his hips-area (which manage to rest un-assaulted against the ground the entire time). This position would also have allowed little guy to try to use HIS hips to generate some space ™ for which to do something useful. I guess that’s kind of the idea behind trying to pull the guard from such a situation, which I guess is what BJJ would teach you. I guess anyway, don’t really know. I’m guessing that, very quickly, big guy’s position and hold would have “sectioned off” little guy sufficiently that he wouldn’t have been able to shift his body as described above. But if you look at the very first bit on the ground, little guy scrambles in the opposite direction from sort-of-taking-the-guard, giving big guy side-mount. Maybe that was technical mistake number one? Hopefully the board BJJ guys will give us some insight. Would have been interesting to see what would have happened if little guy had successfully “rolled” with the takedown to end up on top (you can see him starting to during the takedown, but he never managed it), just out of curiosity. What I remarked upon more than anything from this clip was how long it took big guy to finish little guy off on the ground. Not at all criticising; just curious about the approach. Was he being humane? Had this been a life and death encounter, could he/would he have snapped the arm alot faster?
Honestly I’m talking out of my back-end. But, you know, just for sake of discussion.
it seemed to me that the “mma guy” did’nt have 100% control of the fight right away. the “kung-fu guy” should have tried to get some shots in rather than out grappling the “mma guy”. if i got taken down i’d try to fight there too. you can’t make getting back on your feet the only way out. people forget that the ground is an awesome place to land strikes.
You gotta stop eatin’ them beans boy!! And thats not nearly as offensive as calling this guy a kung fu man.
The first technical mistake was opening his mouth to fight a guy bigger, stronger, faster, in better shape over all pro fighter. His second mistake was that **** poor opening with all the finesse of a teletubby. I mean really, have you seen the beginning? Is that what any of you would call a good ready position? And approaching with a walk like its sunday? His game was canceled at the get go. The rest doesn’t matter, he was no longer in control after the fall.
As far as the what if being rushed thing. You can take a cue from MMA itself on that one. It takes a heck of a lot longer to get a successful shoot on someone who has a sturdy base and better liniation. Its not as easy when someone has a better center of gravity and foot placement and is not leaving himself wide open for it. Many times takedown moves are jammed or slipped. Techniques are frugal and don’t leave one overcommited. It’s actually darn good kung fu.
I would try at least not to have a guy that weighed 100 lbs more land right on top of me. And i’m sorry if it wasn’t an issue there wouldn’t be weight classes in MMA.
Adding strikes on the ground is harder than many think,
Striking against a good grappler would mean striking from an inferior position as most of the time the grappler would get the dominant position.
We often add striking into our groundfighting and what we’ve found is that this gives the better grapplers an even bigger advantage.
An example would be, I get mount on my partner,there are no strikes aloud so I’m going for submissions,he tucks his arms in and protects them from keylocks and armbars,he also protects his neck from neck cranks and chokes.
This can make it difficult for me to get the submission while he is playing the defensive game,
Add striking however and from the same mounted position I can out punch him,he can no longer simply protect his neck and arms or he will get knocked out,this will often result in him making a mistake and extending an arm for an armbar or he may (depending on his experience) turn over and give you his back.
The only time I’ve seen a grappler beat a more experienced one with strikes on the ground was when the more experienced one had never practiced striking on the ground and only played the sport game.
The MMA guy was wide open for one of my signiture moves taken right out of Don F Dreggars Louhan manal. Last Summer, I was taken down pretty easily wile playing with Shaolin Dynasty’s group (Got out with a finger peel the first time, and a sprained elbow the second).
Sine then I have worked a little bit of anti take downs, and discovered that useing a back step combined with dropping into a deeper stance (40 front/60 back) and a simutanious hit to the opponents face (often an upper cut instead of the text books straight punch due to postioning) drops them on the enter.
I haven’t practiced it full power too often as trainng gets interupted for quite some time due to bloody noses.
The deeper stances gives you a lower center of gravity an considerable more stability and the ability to lean into your opponent, thus preventing him from driving you into emptyness.
Once this first step is done, you can drive forward youself wile turning his head with your hands and counter throw him. You must come in low, and use your shoulder to drive his up as you turn thus forcing him into emptyness and ultimately on the ground.
I have had this one work well in practice. The key is to make sure you drill it, and are practiced enough so it comes up if your opponent tries to shoot.
It’s not that easy to describe, and I would still need more practice against a functional BJJ guy to really develop and test it. It worked when i used it pretty good before, but Iv’e really only done it against a few guys. It sort of just happened one day by accident and worked, so i spent some time figureing out what I did and then drilled it for a wile. I should probually get a couple of full face guard style head gears like the Kou Shu guys use to really work this one.
The point is what he should do BEFORE he was taken to the ground…he was hopping here and there, and then tried a lame-ass kick.
Maybe he thought that the MMA guy (Who’s obviously experienced in fighting) would be hopping, too.
Practicioners that are not used to spar in a non-cooperative way, with different opponents in different mindsets lose their complete focus when an opponent charges towards them. And of course, they lose the fight.
Yeah, I’d have to agree, he lost this fight BEFORE the take down.
Marsh was poised for the charge, so our “Hero” descided to use a one legged stance wile he kicked which allowed Marsh to literally ram him off balance ala “Football” style.
Whu Shu boy would have been better of boxing him a bit and trying NOT to give Marsh the emptyness he was looking for.
Heck, even just backpedalling would have been a serious improvemnet in stratagy.
I’d have to agree with one of sifu Abel’s comments, the guy looked like a total dweeb when he was getting tackled. H looked like a rookie wide reciever going across the middle and having to jump.
I would probably shrimp in and pull full closed guard. Keep the head to me to allow myself to gain a knowledge of where we where. THen i would start working my legs up high and go for an armbar then if he was pulling to high for that i’d probably go for a Marco Ruas type standing heel hook.
STEP 1: Look behind the grappler and say “Is that Royce?”
STEP 2: Dim mak.
Actually, I agree with everyone else, the fight was lost in the opening. I’m not so sure this guy could have won standing up, judging from his opening, although it might have not been indicative of his standup game, and he just had a stupid moment.
However, against someone that big, I wouldn’t have gone for that kick without any setup, and I sure as hell would have been cognizant for that takedown. How could he be surprised? I don’t get that, he had to know that a takedown attempt was inevitable.
I’m not saying I would have won, but I wouldn’t be on the ground that fast. On the ground, I probably would have lost, but, again, I wouldn’t have made it that easy to go to ground, and I would’ve made sure that he took some punishment getting me there.
However, my style is predominantly at the clinch range, so I just might have more practice there than that guy.
