I don’t think solo empty hand forms should be used to demonstrate kung fu anymore. Keeping them in the kwoon for training purposes is fine, but IMO they’re a terrible way to demonstrate kung fu to the general public.
Discuss.
Agreed and disagree. It won’t show what the form does or how it’s used against opponents unless you have some experience in m.a and can kinda guess it. Audiences are into flashy forms not traditional stuff.
Too many people learn MULTIPLE forms and then resort to kickboxing.
Why waste your time, when you can be kickboxing if that is how you fight.
For me, that is why South Mantis and Baguazhang and others arts appeal to me. Not many forms but lots and lots of work with drills against people who move and try and whack you.
[QUOTE=Raipizo;1181829]Agreed and disagree. It won’t show what the form does or how it’s used against opponents unless you have some experience in m.a and can kinda guess it. Audiences are into flashy forms not traditional stuff.[/QUOTE]
Even the flashy don’t cut it IMO. Just seems that the world doesn’t need to see another skinny dude flopping about in their silky PJs.
Maybe if they broke it down into smaller portions with a demo of the self defense technique against a person in between sections. But just to do a solo form anymore kind’ve makes TCMA look weak IMO.
Agreed focus on one at a time until you become adept at it.
I actually like forms for demo purposes, they can show the grace and skill of the practitioners.
I do not care for “overly choreographed” two man sets or “play sparring”.
I think that if a person or school is going to do a demo, they should do one that highlights what a system is about and what a person will learn in that school.
Sparring should be a part of it.
This clip here shows what I think is a good demo of a system and school:
From Uechi-ryu master kyohide Shinjo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WClie...eature=related
9 minutes but worth because he ( and his students) demo virtually all that is Uechi-ryu AND even include gasp sparring!
granted it isn’t full contact but it is free style and NOT cooperative.
They show:
Forms
Conditioning
weapons
Bunkai ( application of forms)
free fighting.
i think that the forms for demonstration capture the ‘stylistic flavor’ of what ever style it is pretty well, but what i would like to see in kungfu demonstration competitions is that the ‘traditional’ practitioners compete in both forms and fighting. one to showcase their fighting ability, the other to showcase the style they are using to fight with. i think also this would achieve two goals, one to see how well they can fight with their style, and two to see how well they employ their styles methods and principles in fighting.
modern wushu i think is its own thing and by now everyone should realize its not a representation of traditional kungfu. it is its own thing that can stand alone…preferably over in the corner :eek:
jk
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1181834]I actually like forms for demo purposes, they can show the grace and skill of the practitioners.
I do not care for “overly choreographed” two man sets or “play sparring”.
I think that if a person or school is going to do a demo, they should do one that highlights what a system is about and what a person will learn in that school.
Sparring should be a part of it.
This clip here shows what I think is a good demo of a system and school:
From Uechi-ryu master kyohide Shinjo:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WClie...eature=related
9 minutes but worth because he ( and his students) demo virtually all that is Uechi-ryu AND even include gasp sparring!
granted it isn’t full contact but it is free style and NOT cooperative.
They show:
Forms
Conditioning
weapons
Bunkai ( application of forms)
free fighting.[/QUOTE]
I saw your post on this earlier and liked it and agree it’s a better way to demo. I think choreographed is fine if it’s practiced and put together well. One of my favorite demos I saw live at a smaller tourney was a choreographed san shou demo where they improvised the striking almost like a give and take sparring session and really focused on doing the big oooh aaahhh throws for the audience.
Forms are fine for me for a bit but they tend to get rather dry pretty fast.
when i click that vid it says an error occured during validation every time :mad:
Maybe someone can help me with a name…
Back in the 90’s at one of the first Eagle Cup tournaments, there was an old Wing Chun sifu who did a great martial demo with this young black dude during the masters exhibition. It was all one and two step self defense stuff, but I remember it as being pretty cool. I’d like to look him up on youtube, but I don’t know the guy’s name. It would have been either the first or second Eagle Cup.
I don’t think solo empty hand forms should be used to demonstrate kung fu anymore. Keeping them in the kwoon for training purposes is fine, but IMO they’re a terrible way to demonstrate kung fu to the general public.
why is that? :eek:
if you yourself don’t like to practice forms, don’t do it. i still practice forms 30 years later. for many older people, it helps to keep their bodies limber. i don’t know that many elderly people personally that like to practice san shou.
still, its none of our places to speak for all TCMA. forms are tradition. forms are therapeutic. if people want to and there are, they will practice forms. forms for a non fighter is still a way to stay connected to the tradition.
so, i for one, will never give up forms. even if i’m promoting more fighting than anything, i will never give them up nor stop teaching them.
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1181842]why is that? :eek:[/QUOTE]
an honest answer…
Youtube.
We live in a world of UFC, Boxing, Olympic TKD and Judo, wrestling, and Thai Boxing. When someone takes the time to look up info on a traditional non-sport MA, they’ll find a plethora of really bad forms. I personally don’t like that as being what people associate TCMA with. I figure if people spent more time demoing the cool stuff, the bad will sink to the bottom of search engine h3ll.
We live in a world of UFC, Boxing, Olympic TKD and Judo, wrestling, and Thai Boxing. When someone takes the time to look up info on a traditional non-sport MA, they’ll find a plethora of really bad forms. I personally don’t like that as being what people associate TCMA with. I figure if people spent more time demoing the cool stuff, the bad will sink to the bottom of search engine h3ll.
this isn’t a form. it can be found on youtube. in the video is one of my student who is senior to the guy in yellow. yellow has been training with me a little more than a month now
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1181847]this isn’t a form. it can be found on youtube. in the video is one of my student who is senior to the guy in yellow. yellow has been training with me a little more than a month now
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KmMsrR7FVHg[/QUOTE]
To me something like this is a better way to demo a style. Like I said, earlier, maybe the guy does a small bit of a form and then stops and does that portion with pads so people get a better idea of it as a martial art.
I don’t understand why people don’t just train solo drills (when they don’t have training partner)? A simple drill such as
- hammer fist,
- groin kick,
- face punch,
If you repeat this combo 20 times, it’s just like a form with 60 moves.
To only repeat any technique 1 time in form training can hardly develop any “muscle memory”.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1181850]I don’t understand why people don’t just train solo drills (when they don’t have training partner)? A simple drill such as
- hammer fist,
- groin kick,
- face punch,
If you repeat this combo 20 times, it’s just like a form with 60 moves.[/QUOTE]
Because it doesn’t look cool. Duh. :rolleyes:
To me something like this is a better way to demo a style. Like I said, earlier, maybe the guy does a small bit of a form and then stops and does that portion with pads so people get a better idea of it as a martial art.
no, i feel you. but i still like to see a good form. in a way its like a gymnastics routine. if you know what to look for you can judge them on their execution of the form.
you can have one guy who never fought in his life…street or ring…
and then you have someone who has one or the other or even both experience…
which one do you think would comprehend the purpose of a form better?
I don’t understand why people don’t just train solo drills (when they don’t have training partner)? A simple drill such as
- hammer fist,
- groin kick,
- face punch,
If you repeat this combo 20 times, it’s just like a form with 60 moves.
To repeat 1 rep in form can hardly develop any “muscle memory”.
all my beginners in my club had to know how to strike and use the basic strikes effectively prior to learning the form. first, they train single strikes till they get improved then move on the combo’s.
its all about how and what we train.
[QUOTE=Lucas;1181840]when i click that vid it says an error occured during validation every time :mad:[/QUOTE]