If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end in doubts; but if he will be content to begin with doubts, he shall end in certainties. -Francis Bacon, Advancement of Learning
This thread seems to end with uncertainties, but when will certainty begin? I’m still eagerly waiting for its coming.
Regards,
A punch can clear up many uncertainties-
but may create wobbling new ones both for the puncher and the punched..
The subject is interesting, but I fear it too will be just another riddle for the amusement of the wise. Like all wise owls they become more silent and lonely as the world passes them by. I would rather that they build bridges and not walls.
Regards,
Hi Pual,
Great Wall,
Some see wall,
Some search for gate,
Some never know the different between in or outside the wall.
Some doesn’t see a wall.
For the see wall, wait until they searh for gate.
For the search for gate, wait until they give up looking for the type of gate they expect.
For the never know the different, let them peacefully live where they are.
what Gengiskhan see?
No wall but China.
The book of Chen Pin-San sit there until Tang Hao bought it so that the kids has money for his burrier… NOw a days only 3 usdollar to buy a book of Chen Pin-San’s life research. But then how many appreciate them? how many understood them? how many doesn’t see a different has it or not has it…
and the life goes on
and the saga continous…
Write the book under everyone’s eyes…
What do one see?
embrace the uncertainty.
Hi Joy,
a great song…
“And when the broken hearted people
Living in the world agree,
There will be an answer, let it be.
For though they may be parted there is
Still a chance that they will see
There will be an answer, let it be.
Let it be, let it be. Yeah
There will be an answer, let it be.”
Re: A question for all WC/taiji cross trainers
Originally posted by KingMonkey
Did you take up taiji purely out of interest or did you hope it would help your WC? If so what aspects were you hoping it would help and have you noticed any results ?
Silicon Valley law # 1, always check out your competitors technology.
Silicon Valley law # 2, de-cap it up and see what really inside the IC.
Silicon Valley law # 3, make use of whatever is great but not violating patent .
Silicon Valley law # 4, use the competitors technology to against themself by lowering the manufacturing cost. If Can’t then contact them for join venture! 
I do wing chun, I dont do taichi- not enough hours in the day.
But Iam curious about martial arts in general- so when i sense a good one -I spy:-
joy- up the wingchun mountain -surveying the scenery but not falling off the mountain.
Hendrik,
There has never been any real walls in Genghis Khan’s empire building. He conquered the lands with ease. What one sees would depend on the helpful guide and his experience. Unfortunately the guests are led down more rabbit trails. I prefer that old trusted guide who can cut through the merry chases and lead me straight to the simple beauty of the scenery. While the chase after promising shadows could be worthwhile, it is too exhausting mentally and physically.
If a thing is simple, anyone even a child should be able to understand its nature readily. What I see so far is a very time-consuming and complicated learning process of the delicate intricacies of qi flow, ging flow, mind, breathing, and physical body. How will this help a person to understand SLT or to appreciate the sparking freshness of its springwater? If it should become less into nothingness as Joy said earlier, are we going the hard and perilous way to the mountaintop? Is real WC mostly for the chosen few - the brightest and best and so far from the common crowd?
Regards,
Paul,
"If a thing is simple, anyone even a child should be able to understand its nature readily. What I see so far is a very time-consuming and complicated learning process of the delicate intricacies of qi flow, ging flow, mind, breathing, and physical body. How will this help a person to understand SLT or to appreciate the sparking freshness of its springwater?
If it should become less into nothingness as Joy said earlier, are we going the hard and perilous way to the mountaintop? "—Pual
How many years it takes CXW born from a Martial art family and in a martial art village and train hard to realize the 4 sentences he kindly present to the world?
How many people truely appreciate and understood his great present to all?
How many be able to understood What he means?
How many be able to do what he present
Without burning mid night candle for years and years?
We now see, what the ancient people gone through and recorded, doesnt that better then those who never even has a chance to read what happen in the past and still in try and erro because they don’t read calssical chinese?
WCK looks simple. As it was said in the past " Yee Hok Nan Jeng" easly to learn and difficult to master. Without mastering every details how does one master such a deep art? and mastering means understand every details. No short cut. IMHO
Two weeks ago, Sifu Robert Chu and I had a great chat. He said" there is two type of peace when related to WCK, one is don’t do WCK at all, another one is going through all the ups and downs, loops and hoops, and then finally reaches peace. " I think his words has alots of truth in it.
"Is real WC mostly for the chosen few - the brightest and best and so far from the common crowd? "—Pual
IMHO, I think have faith in WCK and willing to go through everything needed is the key. But then, I don’t know what is Real WC.
“Easy to learn, difficult to master.”
Well, how about: " Learn the Easy, Master the difficult"
It could be just the way how one goes about looking at the perceived patterns. Surely there is always a shortcut for the master! Perhaps you know some shortcuts in the up and down of this long reeling silk thread…Ha! Ha!
Regards,
Originally posted by PaulH
[B]“Easy to learn, difficult to master.”
Well, how about: " Learn the Easy, Master the difficult"
It could be just the way how one goes about looking at the perceived patterns. Surely there is always a shortcut for the master! Perhaps you know some shortcuts in the up and down of this long reeling silk thread…Ha! Ha!
Regards, [/B]
If there is shortcut, which I wish also, then late, Cho Hung-Choy will not let someone wasting 2 decades of thier life to just understand SLT even with all the complete writing and private teaching.
I learn to be gradfull to know what CXW and his ancestors gone through even I don’t know all the detail. But, I learn thier direction to hold a system for 19 generations (more then 19 now).
That direction alone worth millions.
As for the details, one has to eat one’s food everyday. IMHO.
Responses in brackets
Paul H. sez:
There has never been any real walls in Genghis Khan’s empire building.
((The Mongols in their heyday were amazing and brutal. They overran Europe and South Asia and were at the gates of Paris.
Japan was spared by luck as a “divine wind” destroyed the Mongol fleet.))
He conquered the lands with ease.
((Ease? An understatement. Lots of sacrifices, training and group discipline. They forged cooperation between bands and were ruthless with rivals and enemies. They were top flight wrestlers and changed Chinese and Indian wrestling. They were superb horsemen. Experts make the difficult look easy))
I prefer that old trusted guide who can cut through the merry chases and lead me straight to the simple beauty of the scenery. While the chase after promising shadows could be worthwhile, it is too exhausting mentally and physically.
((Excellence has its price. You have to read what CXW’s daily routine was in his starting days. Master Ho Kam ming was closely associated with Ip Man from 55-56 till IM’s death. Of those years
a little over seven years involved intense daily work under guidance- atleast 4 hours every day of the week. IM’s direct tuition period was shorter but he had lots of time to develop his art before escaping from the PRC))
If a thing is simple, anyone even a child should be able to understand its nature readily.
((An exaggeration- unfortunately as luck will have it- millions of children the world over have arrested development-poverty, neglect-you name it)))
What I see so far is a very time-consuming and complicated learning process of the delicate intricacies of qi flow, ging flow, mind, breathing, and physical body.
((depends on what level of the art one wants to attain. There are wing chun people in Hong Kong who trauned only for matches and did well full contact matches in their time. Master Ho can vary the training for full contact matches and for learning the art.
Survival self defense, understanding principles and full contact fighting are quite different things in the wing chun cafetaria. I have had the sheer good fortune of running into a sifu(Fong) who has been and is good at all 3 areas.))
Is real WC mostly for the chosen few - the brightest and best and so far from the common crowd?
((Not chosen …but kung fu specially wing chun was a matter of personal achievement. Interestingly the Taiwanese army used to- and perhaps- still does use TKD for their mass soldierly drills rather than kung fu. Makes sense- kiya!!!))))
((Too late for catching typos))
Joy,
Great post!
When the foundation is not solid the result is very unstable…
As Lao Tze said, Big device is late to complete. A Vast " bow and Robe" which can cover a vast land indeed take long time to make.
a three diamension wave equations can not be solved with simple algebra. a new multidimentional wave equations always needs partial differential equation with atleast x,y, and z coordinate. and the tough part is the origin of the coordinate cannot be hold absolute because of ----no self abiding. so solve without solving. certain within uncertain…
without the philoshophica, there is no advance art.
formular is great until MS excel comes out.
and Art is just technics practiced so much that is has its own “soul”. how to get there with short cut? how can one claim “formular, absolute origin based” teaching as advance?
Cant, the nature not alowed. And I don’t want to lie.
The elevator to the top of mountain is not working. use the stone stair way. at least there is a stair. why complain, havent we see people has to climb to make new stair way from no where?
Thanks, Joy and Hendrik. I enjoy very much your takes on the WC learning path or curve for the individual. I like to share my take on WC learning too. Hence I will borrow the voice of “the Prophet”. He speaks very well for me.
On Teaching by Khalil Gibran
Then said a teacher, “Speak to us of Teaching.”
And he said:
No man can reveal to you aught but that which already lies half asleep in the dawning of our knowledge.
The teacher who walks in the shadow of the temple, among his followers, gives not of his wisdom but rather of his faith and his lovingness.
If he is indeed wise he does not bid you enter the house of wisdom, but rather leads you to the threshold of your own mind.
The astronomer may speak to you of his understanding of space, but he cannot give you his understanding.
The musician may sing to you of the rhythm which is in all space, but he cannot give you the ear which arrests the rhythm nor the voice that echoes it.
And he who is versed in the science of numbers can tell of the regions of weight and measure, but he cannot conduct you thither.
For the vision of one man lends not its wings to another man.
And even as each one of you stands alone in God’s knowledge, so must each one of you be alone in his knowledge of God and in his understanding of the earth.
On Self-Knowledge by Gilbran
And a man said, “Speak to us of Self-Knowledge.”
And he answered, saying:
Your hearts know in silence the secrets of the days and the nights.
But your ears thirst for the sound of your heart’s knowledge.
You would know in words that which you have always know in thought.
You would touch with your fingers the naked body of your dreams.
And it is well you should.
The hidden well-spring of your soul must needs rise and run murmuring to the sea;
And the treasure of your infinite depths would be revealed to your eyes.
But let there be no scales to weigh your unknown treasure;
And seek not the depths of your knowledge with staff or sounding line.
For self is a sea boundless and measureless.
Say not, “I have found the truth,” but rather, “I have found a truth.”
Say not, “I have found the path of the soul.” Say rather, “I have met the soul walking upon my path.”
For the soul walks upon all paths.
The soul walks not upon a line, neither does it grow like a reed.
The soul unfolds itself, like a lotus of countless petals.
Regards,
So to be plain simple!..
The harder and most resisting opponent is living inside all of us?..
(Just could’nt resist!)
Old Jong,
Of a truth, you are plain simple. Ha! Ha!
Regards,
Now the questions remain,
for example:
1,TST talks about Lap nim what is that according to you?
2, Robert Chu published his structure tests. many talks about structure, what is structure according to you?
3, fajing, what is fa jing? how to do that?
Imho, I believe TST,Robert will be able to define to detail what they mean. But what is it for others? can one knows a process when one doesn’t know how to describe it?
care to share?
Can a bird explain the laws of aerodinamics or the principles of lift?..There are things,only practice can develop. Some achieve them but can they really explain?..
(It feels strange being so serious!..Oups!..I think I feel a satori coming!..)
Old Jong,
That’s a good one, but Hendrik is right. Everyone can get away with answering the questions but the teachers. If you teach, you just have to know your subjects well in order to know how to relate to your students. Of course I’m exempted by nature.
Regards,
Old jong sez-(It feels strange being so serious!..Oups!..I think I feel a satori coming!..)
old jong- you must have been in the water closet:-