incorporating juggling into martial arts

many folks still have a problem figuring out what my contribution to the wonderful world of martial arts is… LOL… out of boredom i wrote my own “draft” article in order to help give a proper perspective of where i am coming from with my ideals on juggling and the martial arts.

To most folks, juggling is passed off as a silly past time done to entertain children or perhaps to steal the spotlight at a party by juggling some beer bottles. Yet juggling is a profound art-form based on the simple concepts of physics and mathematics. The art of juggling has been around since the dawning of mankinds inherent intelligence - found throughout all history and within all cultures; from the palaces of the kings, to the midst of the paupers on the streets - there have, and will always be, the jugglers.

According to Professor Arthur Lewbel, the earliest known depiction of toss juggling is Egyptian, from the 15th Beni Hassan tomb of an unknown prince, dating from the Middle Kingdom Period between 1994-1781 B.C. In the Chinese book of Lie Zi, written during the Warring States Period (475-221 B.C.) and attributed to Lie Yukou, describes a Lan Zi from the state of Song in the Spring and Autumn Period (770-476 B.C.) who was reknown for his ability of juggling seven swords. Juggling is also recorded in ancient Irish, Norse, Celtic, Hebrew, Anglo-saxon, Tibetan, Persian, Roman, Greek, and Aztec histories.

The art of juggling is as old as the martial arts, if not older and yet very rarely, if ever, do we hear or see the two in the same sentence. Juggling has been proven to improve reflex, response, manual dexterity, hand-eye coordination, speed, timing, depth perception, peripheral vision, mental clairity, mental focus, cardiovascular health, muscle tone, and relieves stress. Juggling has also been proven to work both sides of the brain simultaneously, thus increasing mental capacity, memory, and an overall general sense of well-being , which now classifies it also as a form of moving meditation. Recent scientific studies have also indicated that juggling also increases the size of ones grey matter by promoting tissue growth. A quick reflection on all these attributes, one should be able to see where the parallels begin to fall when comparing the complimentary action of juggling, to the practice of martial arts, which doesn’t end with the fact both were done on the streets to earn money in order to feed oneself and ones family as mediums of public entertainment - both capitalize on the strength of the mind to dictate the direction of the body.

Adding weight to the objects being juggled now adds another dimension to practice - weight training. Now you have all the wonderful benefits of classical weight training combined with the overwhelmingly beneficial aspects of juggling, which results in a variety of other benefits: finger/hand/grip strength, tendon and ligament conditioning, a more rigorous form of cardio, stamina, endurance, and a complete upper body workout, not to mention the amount of increased mental control exhibited to keep oneself from making smashingly painful mistakes. There is even the factor of the impact vibrations of the objects being juggled on the skeletal system of the hands and forearms - in this case we will take 9 lb iron balls, which would nearly parallel the concepts of palm striking a hard metal surface in order to build up resistance to greater amounts of force from impact by the strengthening of the muscles and bones in the hand, wrist, and arms - incorporating sound vibration effects on bone density adds yet another block in the foundational wall of martial arts “sciences”.

Now that a symbiotic relationship between the martial arts and the art of juggling has been brought to light, the application of juggling techniques into martial arts techniques can be further explored. We already are familiar with stationary juggling - this is the most basic kind - standing with very little lower body movement, but how about juggling iron balls sitting on one leg? while squatting in a deep horse? twisted in a lotus? perhaps we can juggle while walking in a circle? juggle while shifting thru stance work? On posts? how about juggling with co-ordinated breathing from any one of the seven breathing techniques? This gives a whole new dimension to both juggling and martial arts, but now one can explore a whole new relationship between the movements of the arms and their martial applicability.

Juggling uses circular motions of the hands, wrists, and arms to keep multiple objects in the air and moving. Tricks utilize a deviation from the circular motions and some are utilized by making the motion go straight. Basic juggling uses either inside or outside circles depending on the trick - circular movements are utilized in virtually every system of martial arts - strikes, blocks, parries, trappings, and
joint manipulations - all have a foundation in circular movements. Yet perhaps the most profound effect of juggling in relation to the martial arts is the “instant targetting system” that becomes second nature as a byproduct of juggling: the hands go where the eyes do not. A juggler develops a highly refined peripheral depth perception skill that allows for “blind catches”, where the eyes do not see the catching hand. In the end, the entire concept follows something along the lines of mr. miagi’s form of teaching in the movie “the karate kid”.

Applied to martial arts, the skill and ability developed thru juggling can lead to effectively accurate and precisely timed strikes and blocks, which is one of the keys to being successful in ones martial art ability. Other applications come from how the hands do the juggling - using only the first two fingers and your thumb helps specifically strengthen for mantis and eagle claws, along with all the intricate muscle mass of those particular hand positions. Claw juggling is another variation of juggling where one uses raking motions to catch and throw - using weighted iron balls increases the relative strength of these clawing motions when utilized in self defense. A key component of tiger styles is the strength of the arm unit in order to tear and rend flesh of an attackers exposed limb or skin - some people like to scoff at this, yet if one is attempting to gather a well-rounded aspect into the realm martial arts, one has to embrace the reality of what it was intended to be used for, which to say isn’t for duking it out in a cagefight under the control of a set of rules and regulations. What is impractical in todays percieved society, was a reality in yesterdays, and history has the uncanny knack of repeating itself, so it’s best not to be caught off guard.

The art of juggling is one of the most simplest forms of human maintainence - a mental meditation, a physical exercise, and a spiritual form of self expression. It is a manifestation of the power of 3, which is the root of 9(number of change); juggling is the reflection of harmonious change thru motion. Those who disagree may laugh at it, then perhaps they will violently oppress it, but eventually the truth of juggling will become known as being self-evident. If you don’t believe me, i guess you need to go and get your own set
of balls to play with
. :slight_smile:

i hope that clears up some discrepancies and inspires some change…

cool, but it is quite obvious that juggling and martial arts are two completely different pursuits.

Why not just love juggling for what it is and invest your time into that practice?

Projectiles, strength development, balance and eye/hand co-ordination are all developed in much simpler methods in martial arts. Also, those methods are fairly task specific for the most part and address their reasons for being in training and used in conflict(s).

You’d be hard pressed to find any history of a regiment of jugglers entering a battlefield, or juggling techniques being used to train and compete in sportive combatives after all.

The piece you need is to show how a juggling training method can be used to develop something task specific to a martial art, then show examples of how that method resulted in being used in context to martial arts.

Can you develop yourself as a fighter by juggling?

I would also note, that weapons mastery is what lifts one up over the top in kungfu really. In my opinion, it is the weapons masters who have the real deadly in context to martial arts.

Now if you could start employing ballistics and targeting, it is no longer juggling, it is essentially handheld projectile ordinance, in which case, baseball pitchers are actually more useful in context to martial usage.

Anyway, keep practicing!

[QUOTE=David Jamieson;977104]cool, but it is quite obvious that juggling and martial arts are two completely different pursuits.[/quote]yet they are symbiotic in nature…

Why not just love juggling for what it is and invest your time into that practice?
i have… i DO. it is all the same to me anymore…

Projectiles, strength development, balance and eye/hand co-ordination are all developed in much simpler methods in martial arts. Also, those methods are fairly task specific for the most part and address their reasons for being in training and used in conflict(s).
sounds like an excuse… do you honestly know how to juggle beyond the basic three ball routine? can you do a box?? have you worked yer brain learning it??? when i say juggling, i do not mean basic everyday juggling… i mean juggling, with tricks and movements - a big difference.

You’d be hard pressed to find any history of a regiment of jugglers entering a battlefield, or juggling techniques being used to train and compete in sportive combatives after all.
i agree, i never stated juggling as my only means to developing my martial arts - it is completely complimentary.

The piece you need is to show how a juggling training method can be used to develop something task specific to a martial art, then show examples of how that method resulted in being used in context to martial arts.
i understand this, but i do not have a video camera yet and i do not get out much, but i can keep stabbing the forums here with the concept of it all though. :slight_smile:

Can you develop yourself as a fighter by juggling?
yes, of course.

I would also note, that weapons mastery is what lifts one up over the top in kungfu really. In my opinion, it is the weapons masters who have the real deadly in context to martial arts.
iron juggling balls can be a weapon and they can be a defense against a weapon… not the action of juggling itself, but by holding a ball in each hand, such as to block or parry… on the flip side you can wield them as striking weapons and they can be thrown - truly universal in the sense of being proficient with them by spending time in energy practicing.

Now if you could start employing ballistics and targeting, it is no longer juggling, it is essentially handheld projectile ordinance, in which case, baseball pitchers are actually more useful in context to martial usage.
you seem to be missing some fundamentual points… my original post does not specify throwing juggle balls as projectile weapons - it brings to light the speed, timing, and reflex of the arms and hands developed thru the action of juggling.

Anyway, keep practicing!
aye mate… i do it whenever i can. it’s nice to watch my children imitating me… they both have superb reflexs for children their age. my 2 year old son is constantly picking the iron juggle balls up and moving them from one place to the next… my daughter has some whacked out ballet/kung fu/elbow/seven little foys dance/martial arts form that she does. good stuff man… i feel truly grateful to have met marilyn cooper and my baptism into the wonderful world of martial arts. :slight_smile:

Almost all physical activites have SOME transference.
That is why people run or swim or play tennis to supplement their MA.
That said, that transference is not very much AND typically these supplementary things are done as a “change of pace”.
No one in Polo would ever say that baton twirling is the same as playing polo but it is obvious that baton twirling would have some benefit for a polo player.

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;977130]Almost all physical activites have SOME transference.
That is why people run or swim or play tennis to supplement their MA.
That said, that transference is not very much AND typically these supplementary things are done as a “change of pace”.
No one in Polo would ever say that baton twirling is the same as playing polo but it is obvious that baton twirling would have some benefit for a polo player.[/QUOTE]so you do see my point. LOL hahahaha… some actions are more complimentary than others - this much is for sure. my challenge would then be to find another form of action that has no apparent form of martial art application that is superiour to juggling. i will be SO bold as to say that there is hardly a singular activity more beneficial to the martial arts than the art of juggling. period. :slight_smile:

Uki does not have “teh real” juggling. You see, real juggling involves the use of the earth’s gravitational pull in order to compensate one’s lack of chi, if one spends too much time climbing poles instead of doing circuit training. This is why real juggling done by MMA’ers involves morning stars, because of the quikness and explosiveness one develops by getting stabbed each time they juggle. Come and see me sometime and I will show you “teh real” juggling.:smiley:

uh, you forgot the SIZE=“1”[/SIZE] on “teh real SIZE=“1”[/SIZE]”

just sayin, you don’t want someone stealing your art do you?

[QUOTE=uki;977135]so you do see my point. LOL hahahaha… some actions are more complimentary than others - this much is for sure. my challenge would then be to find another form of action that has no apparent form of martial art application that is superiour to juggling. i will be SO bold as to say that there is hardly a singular activity more beneficial to the martial arts than the art of juggling. period. :)[/QUOTE]

I hope you don’t seriously believe that.

It hurts to read this crap

I incorporated juggling into my love life years ago:D

[QUOTE=Lokhopkuen;977172]I incorporated juggling into my love life years ago:D[/QUOTE]

No wonder you ran to China !

learning tai chi from an old lady rofl
but i have to say it takes courage to completely humiliate yourself

what do u have to gain humiliating urself on the internet?
he openly tells people he makes up things and calls it kung fu training, and his only experience is learning taichi from an old woman. he gets beat up by cops and somehow makes it a victory for him lol

the only kind of training that suits uki is the shakeweight dynamic inertia system ™

It IS a great resume bullet for clowns, though!

i would rather hire that man eating clown from stephen kings book than uki

[QUOTE=bawang;977189]i would rather hire that man eating clown from stephen kings book than uki[/QUOTE]

Pennywise freaks me the hell out. You should read the book… find out what he REALLY is. Still makes me shudder.

[QUOTE=Drake;977190]Pennywise freaks me the hell out. You should read the book… find out what he REALLY is. Still makes me shudder.[/QUOTE]

He is “It”.

hehe i read the Gunslinger by king and that freaky clown was in it. just a creepy character

sry to interupt :stuck_out_tongue:

being a bit on topic here for the thread. i know you guys like to harp and uki and all, but there is some validity to the topic at hand. not even having to focus on juggling per se, but on abstract supplimental training in general. CMA is FULL of this stuff. A lot of people harp on lion dancing, but then you look at guys that are famous fighters as well as doing the lion dancing. of course the old wong fei hung is an example, if somewhat over used. how good of a fighter was he? who knows, but it is documented that he fought people. he was also a famous doctor. In the grand scheme of things which is more important to your society and country? doctor hands down. Did his medical knowledge improve his martial arts? After some fashion, of course.

A correlation i see is along the lines as what was described in the 30 years of sanshou interview in the latest issue of this great magazine.

when talking about tumbling, traditional stance training, acrobatics, etc.

complimentary skills that are not needed to train but give you an ‘edge’ in the sense that if you are training regularly as well as training what ever supplimental activity you will get the benefits from your solid MA training, and anything supplimental is just for an ‘edge’. granted the article was from someone who trained 7 days a week for wushu all day long. modern and traditional. so of course anything someone in that setting does outside of the actual fight combat training is supplimental in one form or another.

It really just depends on what the edge is and how its incorporated into ones training.

you dont need to be able to do 30 back handsprings in place to fight. but if you can, that flexability, strength, coordination, timing, ect. is just a bit of an edge on top of your regular game. Personally I stopped doing handsprings a couple years ago, I havnt noticed a significant change, except that if I tried to do a backhandspring right now, I may injure myself. You see lots of MMA guys do backflips after their win. Why even bother learning how to do backflips? I never did, and likely never will.

of course again, it all depends on your goals.

personally there are a lot of people who can kick my ass, likewise there are a lot of people whos asses i can kick. whats that mean? I am what and where I am.

sorry to interupt the harping :smiley:

is juggling detrimental to your training? i would think not, unless you forsake all other forms of training for it.

again, where do you want to be, and are you getting there?

[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;977202]hehe i read the Gunslinger by king and that freaky clown was in it. just a creepy character[/QUOTE]

an interesting thing about king books, that entity is in all his books. its the source of the evil. it just takes on different forms. such as in eye of the dragon, it was the evil wizard