Okay, this is actually just a jab at Sanjuro 
just wanted to give our new resident mod here some work ! :eek:
haha
meh, if youâd been exposed to real MMA training you wouldnât post your glorified kung fu crap on here, I tell ya!
[QUOTE=Lucas;972627]Okay, this is actually just a jab at Sanjuro
just wanted to give our new resident mod here some work ! :eek:
haha
:D[/QUOTE]
I agree.
just a side question, youâre not coming on to me too like that other guy, are you?
Cause I am as straight as Sean Connery !!
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;972683]I agree.
just a side question, youâre not coming on to me too like that other guy, are you?
Cause I am as straight as âSean Conneryâ !![/QUOTE]
yeah thats strait alright
meh, if youâd been exposed to real MMA training you wouldnât post your glorified kung fu crap on here, I tell ya!
If only some people would understand this⌠
I donât know about forms, but i do love the fighting aspect of my crappy kung foo systemâŚlol
forms are the flowers that sprout from the seeds of self-expressionâŚ
[QUOTE=uki;972719]forms are the flowers that sprout from the seeds of self-expressionâŚ[/QUOTE]
Ahhh, good old vague and nonsensical sayings. It really feels like a kung fu forum now
I find forms useful.
I enjoy practice of them and can readily feel some benefit to my health and understanding of my own body by practice of them.
[QUOTE=David Jamieson;972730]I find forms useful.
I enjoy practice of them and can readily feel some benefit to my health and understanding of my own body by practice of them.[/QUOTE]
So does pretty much everyone else.
Very few people are against training forms, many may be against the illusions that some profess are the purpose of forms, but all of us tend to agree they have benefits.
Why I get hung up on like forms and hating forms. The hating form part comes from training at a school were your led to believe the form is every thing you need for fighting, exercise, philosophy and so forth. (Iâm a believer in you need more than just forms). Love form comes from looking at it as just a set of exercises. I mean most forms have there variations of squats, lunges, stretches and so forth. Heck even some advance forms have plyometric type stuff. So if i look at forms as a set of exercises only that break up daily routine at gym or body weight training then i love them.
I think the underlying thinking is, and please correct me if Iâm wrong,
Forms donât teach fighting, fighting teaches fighting? So, if you want to learn how to fight, fight. Fair enough.
PARABLE TIME!!
A Samuri comes to a village and everybody bows, but the oil merchant pouring oil into small containers.
The Samuri is offended and threatens to behead the man if he doesnât bow, and the man says, âI donât need to bow to you and your skill, I can pour oil through the hole in this coin, into my bottle, and not spill a drop.â The Samuri watched as he did so, over and over again.
The Samuri then left.
7 years later the Samuri returned, and bowed to the Oil Merchant in recognition of his skill which the Samuri could not reproduce, and was enlightened.
To some, kung fu is about fighting. To others it is about physical skills and the pursuit of perfection in movement and timing. The goal is the pursuit, not the realisation.
â
There are two kinds of mountaineers youâll meet. When your sitting on the top and another climber scuttles up and you ask them, âSo, whyâd you climb it?â Most offer the cliche âBecause its hereâ, or âI had to add it to my conquestsâ or the like. Few people answer the obvious, âfor the view.â
I guess you can just say that not everybody has the same motivations.
If your own motivations gain force by the denial of alternatives or by measure against foreign standards, you have no validity other than what you take from others.
[QUOTE=Lucas;972627]Okay, this is actually just a jab at Sanjuro
just wanted to give our new resident mod here some work ! :eek:
haha
:D[/QUOTE]
Forms training can be beneficial if practiced properly, taking account of the various elements within them, and as a part of a holistic kung fu training program that includes conditioning, Iron skills, two man exercises and of course, contact sparring.
I also believe that TCMA school should teach the essential forms of a given system and not cram unnecessary number of such exercises into their curriculum.
HW108
Iâll add that not all forms are created equal. Some forms are just choreography. Others have âmoreâ to offer.
I know for a fact that there are skills I developed via form training, not techniques, but skills, that I could not have developed via free fighting, however, work in free fighting.
Could I have isolated those exercises, taken them out of the forms, practiced them in isolation against bags, explored how they apply to different techniques, then in more live circumstances, shure. I did.
Like I said, its not a technique, its a skill. Something that washes over lots of techniques.
Something you do thousands of times under static circumstances before you even understand what it does and how to use it.
No, never said it was quick, easy or efficient.
When I was a young fellow I had the chance to see a few different things, like a form of karate, that I decided to learn. I quickly learned that it was not much different than my own style. A bit rigid really, but not much different otherwise. Then I went ****her into it and found that it had an unbelievable number of forms. Each were learned in order to advance. Then I realized that these forms were really dependent upon my physical abilities. I am short, have short legs, large upper body and upper body strength. I could not do all the forms and techniques well. I could do a few really well, but not all. Some I could never do because I was limited physically. I have watched a few other different styles and systems and have come to see that they are all pretty much the same in that respect. I would not be able to keep up with the same level of skill as I grew older. I donât really think anyone could. All those old guys in the movies were really 15 year old kids with gray wigs.
Then I come to think that the forms didnât really teach me anything, just had me practicing techniques and such. This is really the way we learn to fight well. Fighting does not teach you much, except that you donât want to get hit in the face. Fighting is just a way of testing what you have already learned. It tells you what works and what donât in a given situation. But fighting never teaches you anything. When you are fighting you do not have time to realize what you are doing or have just done. And after the fight you will remember very little of what took place. It is a very poor learning atmosphere. Forms will get and keep you limber for a while, and it allows you to perfect your use of fighting techniques. And in order to make it worth while, you pretend that you are whipping someone.
But fighting never teaches you anything. When you are fighting you do not have time to realize what you are doing or have just done. And after the fight you will remember very little of what took place. It is a very poor learning atmosphere.
When you speak of fighting are you saying fighting like in the street/ring or are you speaking of sparring?
2 different environments.
[QUOTE=Yum Cha;972811]I think the underlying thinking is, and please correct me if Iâm wrong,
Forms donât teach fighting, fighting teaches fighting? So, if you want to learn how to fight, fight. Fair enough.
PARABLE TIME!!
A Samuri comes to a village and everybody bows, but the oil merchant pouring oil into small containers.
The Samuri is offended and threatens to behead the man if he doesnât bow, and the man says, âI donât need to bow to you and your skill, I can pour oil through the hole in this coin, into my bottle, and not spill a drop.â The Samuri watched as he did so, over and over again.
The Samuri then left.
7 years later the Samuri returned, and bowed to the Oil Merchant in recognition of his skill which the Samuri could not reproduce, and was enlightened.
To some, kung fu is about fighting. To others it is about physical skills and the pursuit of perfection in movement and timing. The goal is the pursuit, not the realisation.
â
There are two kinds of mountaineers youâll meet. When your sitting on the top and another climber scuttles up and you ask them, âSo, whyâd you climb it?â Most offer the cliche âBecause its hereâ, or âI had to add it to my conquestsâ or the like. Few people answer the obvious, âfor the view.â
I guess you can just say that not everybody has the same motivations.
If your own motivations gain force by the denial of alternatives or by measure against foreign standards, you have no validity other than what you take from others.[/QUOTE]
Well said Jubei !
chinese kung fu doesnt teach forms. kung fu teaches postures âshiâ
1800âs kung fu after a 200 year ban is not reliable
[QUOTE=bawang;972872]
1800âs kung fu after a 200 year ban is not reliable[/QUOTE]
Nice.
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;972848]When you speak of fighting are you saying fighting like in the street/ring[/quote]the street and the ring are not even comparable nor worthy to be in the same sentence⌠the ring is for entertainment where âfightersâ have to abide by a set of rules and regulations, with the outcome, at times, decided by a panel of judges⌠again, the street and the ring are entirely different enviromentsâŚ
2 different environments.
i have clarified the two enviroments for you.