[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1125700]Do you turn on your back “toe” or on your back “heel” when you change from “horse stance” into “bow arrow stance”? I just found this elementary school TCMA training book that has very clear picture on how to turn on back “toe”.
Under what condition will you turn on your back “heel” instead?
Will you turn differently if you want to kick out your back leg, or punch out your back hand right after your turning?
Do you always have combat intend when you turn? Or do you prefer to separate your turn from your next move?[/QUOTE]
That photo is just a basic guide that is common in forms. In a practical setting there are many ways one’s footwork could get you into a bow’s arrow stance.
To change from horse stance into bow-arrow stance, since even a small bow-arrow stance is much wider than the horse stance, in order to obtain that extra distance for your bow-arrow stance, you will have the following 2 options:
To turn on your
toes and move your heel out,
heel and move your toes in, but move your leading leg forward,
If you take the 2nd appoach, since this will shorten the distance between your opponent’s leading leg and your leading leg, this will give your opponent a chance to attack your advanced leading leg.
How to change from a horse stance into bow arrow stance
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1125700]Do you turn on your back “toe” or on your back “heel” when you change from “horse stance” into “bow arrow stance”? I just found this elementary school TCMA training book that has very clear picture on how to turn on back “toe”.
Under what condition will you turn on your back “heel” instead?
Will you turn differently if you want to kick out your back leg, or punch out your back hand right after your turning?
Do you always have combat intend when you turn? Or do you prefer to separate your turn from your next move?[/QUOTE]
YouKnowWho , it ’ s simple you ’ re in a horse stance just turn to the right , until your body is in alignment with your front and back leg . Your front knee should be covering your front toe . the samething as you turn to your left too . When
you ’ re in a right bow and arrow stance for example the center part of your body ,
should be facing should be aligned to your front leg . You do the samething as you turn to your left and do the left bow and arrow stance too . The reason why they call it a bow and arrow stance is because the front knee is a shape of an arrow and the rear leg is the shape of a bow , when you ’ re pulling the bow back to shoot the arrow , that ’ s the reason why they call it a bow and arrow stance .
This comes from Sifu Bucksam Kong ’ s Hung Gar Kung Fu Book , the first one he published .
I learned it the same way in the diagram. I don’t see how you can turn on the ball of the foot. Here’s a test: try to do it on the ball of the foot while advancing…can’t do it and stay on balance.
Since HungGar uses wider horse stance, there is no narrow horse stance and wider bow-arrow stance issue. It’s very interest to see that the same form (Gong Li Chuan) were done in different ways.
If you start with narrow horse stance, you will turn your back toes (to make your stance wider) as shown at 0.05 and 0.07.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1125758]I have involved with many “WC discussion threads”. When I start a “general TCMA discussion thread” like this, I can never get any of our WC friends to involve with our discussion. Do anybody know “why”?[/QUOTE]
WC is a very narrow and orthodox kung fu. I only have experience with this stuff because I learned a family’s system of kung fu that involved learning basic kung fu principles before learning WC or anything else.
This is a good example of the Mabu to Gongbu transition in a Songshan Shaolin Qinna technique. Watch in the video at the first Qinna application at 1:50.
It doesn’t show the full stance, but you can see he turns first to Mabu to set up the lock and then pops his hips square into Gongbu as his right arm thrusts down applying pressure to the opponents elbow. Of course in real application the pop and snap will be much more fierce.
This is an application of the technique “wozhen” (lying on the pillow) as seen in Dapaoquan for example. See in the video below the technique done thrice at 1:30.
Notice how he snaps his hips square from Mabu into Gongbu using waist power. The back foot pushes the heel out rear of the ball which just pivots, hips snap and the rear knee goes from facing outward to inward/downward. The power in this application is downward, not forward.
To turn on back heel is “(Tui) - push”. To turn on back toes (Yong Quan Xue) is “(Zhuan) - twist”. My understanding is that the “(Chan Si Jin) - silk reeling Jin” requires “(Zhuan) - twist” from the foot, to the knee, and all the way up to the shoulder.
There are advantages to both techniques. Pivoting on the ball of the foot can quickly line up the hip and heel to maximize a kick (that power connection is from your heel upward, though, not the ball of the foot). Pivoting on the heel (turning toes in or out) can be beneficial to “bumping” your opponent’s leg with your knee. And in cases of rapid foot-changing (a shuai jiao leg block, for instance), what starts as a “stealing” step, turns quickly to ma bu, then gongbu as the waist turns; in this case it seems better to pivot on the heels for increased stability.
We pivot on the heels almost all of the time. We pivot on the balls of the feet rarely, but do sometimes. But like everything, it depends on the context and situation.
in our Hung Kuen, we teach beginners to pivot on their heel to maintain connection to the earth, and not cause “hinges” in their legs, keeping direct line of force. It is easier than saying “Pivot on your yung chuan.”
Large stances, front leg bent, rear leg locked, back straight, is a beginner’s learning level.
It is teaching method. “From the large comes the small.”
Later on in their training, they are taught to pivot on their rear ball of the foot and “slam” the heel into the ground, tuck the sacrum, unlock the rear leg, swallow the chest. The power ripples through the body.
The stances in Hung-Kuen are also shorter later on, as the student’s body is “educated.”
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1128999]in our Hung Kuen, we teach beginners to pivot on their heel to maintain connection to the earth, and not cause “hinges” in their legs, keeping direct line of force. It is easier than saying “Pivot on your yung chuan.”
Large stances, front leg bent, rear leg locked, back straight, is a beginner’s learning level.
It is teaching method. “From the large comes the small.”
Later on in their training, they are taught to pivot on their rear ball of the foot and “slam” the heel into the ground, tuck the sacrum, unlock the rear leg, swallow the chest. The power ripples through the body.
The stances in Hung-Kuen are also shorter later on, as the student’s body is “educated.”[/QUOTE]
Dam I can resonate!
Love your easier than yong quan phrase! Dig it!
Altho I agree on 99.9% - not agree - but rather ascribe to same practice as I guess - as you - I dont have anyone do the straight-leggers. The correction afterwards is just too painful
[QUOTE=TenTigers;1128999] rear ball of the foot and “slam” the heel into the ground, tuck the sacrum, unlock the rear leg, swallow the chest. The power ripples through the body.
The stances in Hung-Kuen are also shorter later on, as the student’s body is “educated.”[/QUOTE]
lol Me too…I need to have a chat with you privately. I am finally at the point where I might just have a golden child. But verbiage is tough with me. I can recognize certain things but have a hard time putting them in words.
And certain things my student needs to hear. You seem to do well with them and I could use some tips.
[QUOTE=Northwind;1129070]lol Me too…I need to have a chat with you privately. I am finally at the point where I might just have a golden child. But verbiage is tough with me. I can recognize certain things but have a hard time putting them in words.
And certain things my student needs to hear. You seem to do well with them and I could use some tips.[/QUOTE]
anytime. I am at your service!
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1126442]To turn on back heel is “(Tui) - push”. To turn on back toes (Yong Quan Xue) is “(Zhuan) - twist”. My understanding is that the “(Chan Si Jin) - silk reeling Jin” requires “(Zhuan) - twist” from the foot, to the knee, and all the way up to the shoulder.
