[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1125740]
Do your guys realize that we can have civilized discussion without personal attacking when MMA guys are not involved?[/QUOTE]
John, why not just keep discussing good stuff and not make negative comments like this, it serves no purpose
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1125736]I would never use this stance in fighting. its too long.[/QUOTE]
It really depends on what you’re using it for, what type of application. If just a straight punch like that, yeah that’s pretty ridiculous.
But this stance, even as long as it is, is directly applicable to several types of throws and takedowns coming from different positions where your ending stance is just like that.
It really depends on what you’re using it for, what type of application. If just a straight punch like that, yeah that’s pretty ridiculous.
right, it could be used as a long reverse sweep while striking or throwing. you’re right about that
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1125744]John, why not just keep discussing good stuff and not make negative comments like this, it serves no purpose[/QUOTE]
There is nothing wrong to share happiness with others. It has been a while that we don’t have to worry about someone may say, “to change from horse stance into bow-arrow stance is useless because you will never see anybody use it in the cage”.
To be able to discuss something that you may not see in any cage fight is pretty “luxury” in this forum. 
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1125736]
[/QUOTE]
Yeah, this is kind of what we were talking about above, this is a rear hand strike in Gong Bu… It doesn’t appear in Old shaolin, the stance would be a lot closer.
But yeah as a throw it appears.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1125748]Yeah, this is kind of what we were talking about above, this is a rear hand strike in Gong Bu… It doesn’t appear in Old shaolin, the stance would be a lot closer.
But yeah as a throw it appears.[/QUOTE]
modern performance aesthetic leads to longer stances, lower stances, longer lines, extended limbs. Real kung fu is pretty UGLY actually 
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1125747]
To be able to discuss something that you may not see in any cage fight is pretty “luxury” in this forum. :D[/QUOTE]
but you DO see “stance” in a cage fight, in ANY fight, just not static stances, which I doubt you believe in anyway
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1125749]modern performance aesthetic leads to longer stances, lower stances, longer lines, extended limbs. Real kung fu is pretty UGLY actually ;)[/QUOTE]
Hehe, Yeah, old shaolin is generally known as being very ugly in Wushu cricles. My old master always said it should be ugly. But you know when you see someone on the street who is really ugly but you can’t stop looking at them because their face has so much character… beautifully ugly. I think of Shaolin a bit like this…
And yeah, if you freeze frame a ring fight at the moment a strike hits you will often see stances…Quite well defined sometimes. But they are as they should be in an instant.
To anyone; A good one to watch is boxings ‘Prince Naseem’ Freeze frame his knockouts and see his hand and stance position.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1125750]but you DO see “stance” in a cage fight, in ANY fight, just not static stances, which I doubt you believe in anyway[/QUOTE]
The stance is always “non-static” by my definition. The “stealing step” to me is just a body spin. The (Zuo Pan Shi) shoudl not even exist in TCMA IMO.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1125753]The stance is always “non-static” by my definition. The “stealing step” to me is just a body spin. The (Zuo Pan Shi) shoudl not even exist in TCMA IMO.
some things were originally just “expedient means” (do you know this Buddhist term?) - teach at the level they are ready. But the guy teaching started to be just as “uneducated” and things got watered down over time
We use a LOT of footwork, but never stand in stances
Yeah, this is kind of what we were talking about above, this is a rear hand strike in Gong Bu… It doesn’t appear in Old shaolin, the stance would be a lot closer.
But yeah as a throw it appears. [/QUOTE]
I’ve done the technique pictured, from Mabu hooking the left arm, then transitioning into this Gongbu right punch.
But the application is not as a punch, but part of a kick catch and throw.
The left arm hooks under an incoming heel kick, catching it in the crook of the arm. The body has to turn into “Mabu” to avoid being in line of the kick.
Then the right hand takes the opponents heel into the palm of the hand (in the same position as a horizontal punch), and turning (even stepping) into left Gongbu the right hand pushes their leg up toward their own head, throwing them up and back quite a ways and landing hard.
Of course this can be worsened by rushing forward, or stepping on their base foot, or hooking their base leg for an even harder crash to the ground.
But this is one such application where the stance is from Mabu into Gongbu as a clear lunge stance.
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1125744] not make negative comments …[/QUOTE]
Since you have mentioned this, I just have to let this out of my system. Have you noticed that our WC friends in this forum have never get involved with any of our “general TCMA” discussion? 
Do you know “Why”?
I have involved with many “WC discussion threads”. When I start a “general TCMA discussion thread” like this, I can never get any of our WC friends to involve with our discussion. Do anybody know “why”?
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1125758]I have involved with many “WC discussion threads”. When I start a “general TCMA discussion thread” like this, I can never get any of our WC friends to involve with our discussion. Do anybody know “why”?[/QUOTE]
unfortunately, a lot of them seem to have learned only certain aspects. I think throwing is neglected in many wc lineages these days, they never got a chance to learn it
[QUOTE=lkfmdc;1125761]unfortunately, a lot of them seem to have learned only certain aspects. I think throwing is neglected in many wc lineages these days, they never got a chance to learn it[/QUOTE]
I can understand that our WC friends may not be interested in throw, but they have (Yee Gee Kim Yeung Ma) which is similiar to horse stance too. They should have the same issue as how to turn from their YGKYM stance.
We has this discussion a while back. Ben Gash, JamesC, and YouKnowWho all like to pivot on the ball (Toe area). I prefer pivoting off the Heel.
While having this debate I realized that there are different approaches they both have their merits. Pivoting off the Ball prepares you for a kinda springy power. Where pivoting off the Heel gives you more body or waist power.
The use for each is going to change depending on the situation. Example:
Heels: I use the heel when deliver a reverse punch to drive off the ground with my back heel.
Ball: When doing a lower Body Hip Throw, as you bend down (pulling your opponent over) you use a springy push off your Toes (Ball) to finish the throw.
ginosifu
Important fundamental skill
For those of you trying to follow along and trying to understand where this skill development fits into martial arts - think of opening movements in the Jin Wu form Gung Lik Kuen. Go to a heavy bag - do a straight punch out of horse - then do the same straight punch but this time transition from horse to bow as in the form gung lik kuen. Notice the difference.
Good TCMA discussion Master Wang. Honestly, I don’t pay much attention to what ends up being the front leg is doing when I transition from horse to bow, it does what it needs to do, but I do pay attention to the back and I always “pop” off the pivoting toe as LFJ and the diagram show.
This popping is fundamentally important to a thrower - watch this clip for example of how that transitioning movement is used.
Depends. But in basics usually ball suits the development of the waist.
Depends. But in basics usually ball suits the development of the waist.
you can get the same range of motion in the waist with a foot that has both heels and toes on the floor.
