Do you turn on your back “toe” or on your back “heel” when you change from “horse stance” into “bow arrow stance”? I just found this elementary school TCMA training book that has very clear picture on how to turn on back “toe”.
Under what condition will you turn on your back “heel” instead?
Will you turn differently if you want to kick out your back leg, or punch out your back hand right after your turning?
Do you always have combat intend when you turn? Or do you prefer to separate your turn from your next move?
following that method, if i want to kick out with my lead leg, in say a front kick, i will turn on my heel. if i want to kick out with my rear leg, i will not turn that rear foot at all, i will go directly to the kick. also if i am going to punch out with my back hand, personally, i will probably not turn the foot and instead i will step with the punch. however it all depend on what is happening.
Mainly stability. We utilize a type of footwork called Snake Stepping. Our feet pretty much glide across the floor while moving in the different directions. another reason is we follow the four points of power. with your feet on fully on the ground you have all points connected meaning heel and toe. lift one heel you have three points of power.
However, in this specific stance, which is called the T stance in our HSCLF. The rear leg form the body of the T while the front leg shapes the top part of it. for us, this is a mid to short range stance designed to be strong and rooted and easily mobile.
The stance we have that there are three points of power are the Twist Horse, Kneel Horse, and Tip Toe horse. in all of these the heel is raised creating only three points of power.
Also, i’ve witnessed people trying to turn in some CLF stances like the Bow stance and when they were on the balls of their feet they tended to slide back and away from primary focus which is in front of you.
Horse to Bow is one of the most basic, versatile, and important stance transitions in Songshan Shaolin, used in striking, throwing, and all kinds of situations.
In Chinese there’s a saying; “Lian wu bu lian yao, zong jiu yi bu gao” which means “martial arts practice without waist training, always remains just one step high”. It talks about the importance of training waist power.
Horse to Bow in Songshan Shaolin is all about the waist.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1125700]Do you turn on your back “toe” or on your back “heel” when you change from “horse stance” into “bow arrow stance”? I just found this elementary school TCMA training book that has very clear picture on how to turn on back “toe”.[/quote]
In Songshan Shaolin the turn is the same with both feet as shown in the picture. Front toes turn out and back heel turns out, but without really lifting. It’s more like kicking the heel to the rear. The power is initiated from the waist and creates a spiral motion which sends energy out from the center. It’s much different from simply pushing off the back foot to send the whole body forward into the bow stance, making you susceptible to being pulled off balance. Instead you keep your weight centered and create a spiral power. The emphasis is popping the rear leg and snapping the hips square.
Under what condition will you turn on your back “heel” instead?
Will you turn differently if you want to kick out your back leg, or punch out your back hand right after your turning?
Do you always have combat intend when you turn? Or do you prefer to separate your turn from your next move?
In order to snap the rear leg knee downward, and square the hips forward in bow stance, you have to thrust your heel backward. It won’t work otherwise and won’t generation the proper speed and power.
We don’t kick from horse stance like that. If there is a kick, it would follow the turn into bow stance, and the regular fighting stance is a modified bow. If it is punching with the rear hand, the turn and power generation from the waist is as I explained. Rather than pushing from the rear foot and sending the weight forward, you snap the waist and turn the hip over to create a spiral energy without leaning or pushing forward (so as not to be pulled off balance). It’s like a spinning top, the center stays in place and the energy spirals out in all directions. So it’s not pushing from the rear and “punching” with the arm. It’s all in the waist power.
Not sure what you mean here. The turn has important purposes in many different applications, as a striking power, twisting, throwing, etc.. Many uses. Don’t know why it would be separated from combat intention.
As LFJ correctly observed above; its more like Back toe, front heel. But one should concentrate on the switch of the Hips and the waist. Even a small gong bu is much wider than ma bu, it is necessary to turn the heel out.
Saying this in modern Shaolin the switch has become over-used. For example when striking off the front hand it is more common to step into gong bu. When striking off the rear hand it is more traditional not to use gong bu at all but a variation called Yao bu.
Gong bu (bow stance) is called such because the front leg is bent like a bow. If you turn the waist fully and strike off the rear hand it will put you off balance to Gong (bow) the front leg as far as knee above toes. So often the front leg is not so bowed and the stance is more like a walking stance and is referred to as Yao Bu. In yao bu the rear leg can comfortably step foreward slightly. This is because striking from the rear hand compromises range and it is useful to step foreward.
Similarly Xubu-Gongbu switch is special. In this case one may push off the back heel, like a sprinter pushing off starting blocks. The front leg steps foreward dramatically into GOng bu (or Yao bu if using the rear hand).
Pu bu -Gong bu is also a special case. Jinji du li to gong bu is also. In fact every switch is slightly different. In modern Shaolin most people will first switch to Ma bu then to gong bu, so the Ma bu to gong bu switch is almost always used. It has been simplified this way to the detriment of shaolin.
The Mabu-gongbu switch is the most powerful, more powerful than stepping since you have already grown roots (yet slower). This is probably why it has replaced the other switches in many schools.
It is still one of the most important switches and a valuable training tool, but too overused.
[QUOTE=LFJ;1125718]- Not sure what you mean here. The turn has important purposes in many different applications, as a striking power, twisting, throwing, etc.. Many uses. Don’t know why it would be separated from combat intention.[/QUOTE]
May be the better words can be “Do you consider turn and do your thing as one move, or separate moves?”
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1125727] Even a small gong bu is much wider than ma bu, it is necessary to turn the heel out.[/QUOTE]
This is what I have always believe in too. But some Taiji guys don’t agree with me on this. They prefer to turn on back heel instead.
[QUOTE=RenDaHai;1125727]So often the front leg is not so bowed and the stance is more like a walking stance and is referred to as Yao Bu. In yao bu the rear leg can comfortably step foreward slightly.[/QUOTE]
Yes, that’s what I meant as the fighting stance being a modified gongbu, where you bring the back foot more under yourself. This stance shows up in older traditional ways of doing Shaolin. Probably rarely if ever by the modern guys.
I would never use this stance in fighting. its too long. i would used half the length of the gong Bu. in HSCLF our toe doesn’t point in the direction. from the perspective of the picture, the toe would be turn to the right more.
[QUOTE=hskwarrior;1125736]I would never use this stance in fighting. its too long. i would used half the length of the gong Bu. in HSCLF our toe doesn’t point in the direction. from the perspective of the picture, the toe would be turn to the right more.
[/QUOTE]
You may not use bow-arrow stance for your strike but you will use it for your throw.
[QUOTE=bawang;1125730]yao bu (twist step) is from old orthodox footwork. gongbu is a useless modern wushu invention.
traditional kung fu categorizes footwork by usage. there is no such thing as mabu and gongbu.[/QUOTE]
Gong bu can still be used when striking off of the front hand. Like fencers lunge. In my forms gong bu never appears with a rear hand strike but is common for the front hand. Saying this the stance is instantaneous not held.
(Edit; Actually I do have occasions where the strike is not in line with the stance but perpendicular, in this case a rear gong bu appears.) This is not always striking but sometimes more a throwing movement.
[QUOTE=bawang;1125730]gongbu is a useless modern wushu invention … there is no such thing as mabu and gongbu.[/QUOTE]
The Chinese throwing art is built on the following 3 stances:
horse stance,
bow-arrow stance,
golden rooster stance.
Witout bow-arrow stance, many throws will not be able to perform. Examples are cracking throw, pulling throw, 1/2 hip throw 1/2 leg block, …
When you use your shin bone to run into your opponent’s front leg, you will need that low bow-arrow stance.
