When you guys do stance change of Horse stance to Bow and Arrow stance, do you pivot the back leg on the heels or on the balls of your feet? Why do you do what you do?
I’ve been taught to pivot off the heel to propel my body mass forward (to dig into the ground with the heels) but now I am being taught (different teacher) to pivot off the balls of the feet. I would like your perspective
Depends on what you are trying to do. Do you want to throw or punch? Or do something else.
Balls of feet except in forms
The balls of the feet. Kicking is a bit quicker for some people when they use the heels.
You start by pushing off the heel of the foot. At some point you have to “release” the heel slightly to let the force continue up your body. At the point your heel releases you are turning the foot on the ball.
If you push off with the ball of the foot then you are probably going to be a bit “over committed.” You see boxers do this when they are looking for the knock out punch. If they connect then great but when they miss they usually throw themselves off balance and it takes a second to regain that balance. An eon in fighting terms.
Heel, otherwise you have absolutely no root during the transition. That’s why emphasis is placed on twisting exercises such as “Lion playing with the ball” and the twisting exercises you see in the latest Shaolin Special. Same is true when you’re practicing side punches, or chops, or “shoot and pull” exercises. You can’t grab my collar and pull me on the balls of your feet.
Im going with the ball of the foot. It adds more mobility to the transition. I also think that hen you are pivoting on your heel that you are more suseptable to being pushed backwards. Being on the heels gives you less root.
You all do realize that he is saying pivoting from a horse stance to a bow stance, right? I’m really shocked that so many of you are claiming that twisting from a horse to a bow should be done on the balls of your feet.
There is absolutely NO root if you are on the balls of your feet. And there is absolutely no release of the heel when turning.
Not to mention, if you’re lifting your heel and turning, you’re going to inadvertantly and unavoidably widen your stance. I’d get a kick out of seeing some of you doing the splits by the end of a twisting session. There’s also the stress on the knee & unnecessarily having to slide your feet back into position. This isn’t opinion, it’s just plain fact.
Not to try and start fights or anything, but how many of you that said balls of the feet actually go to a kung fu school?
well, the explanations I’ve gotten for the two are:
Heels: when you pivot from hore to bow, you want to “dig” your rear leg into the ground. Since you don’t actually do that, what happens is that as you twist, the digging sensation actually translates into a forward energy that gets rebounded off the ground and into whatever you’re doing. Also, having the heel as pivot means you’re foot is flat so = better root.
Balls of feet: In order to generate a greater twist in your pivoting motion for better chansujing type energy, your rear leg has to generate a more of a corkscrew action. This is better with the balls of feet as the pivot becasue pivoting off the heels does not allow for the greater range of motion with the feet. Also, your’re not supposed to lift the heel, but allow it to drag on the ground, generating frictional resistance which will rebound and add to your chansujing.
Actuality: I’ve found myself using the balls for dynamic pivoting, i.e. when I am basically going from some fighting stance to a version of the bow stance when I punch as I move during sparring, but when I am close in enough to have crossed bridges and is in contact with my entire arm or shouler or torso, my techniques come off the heel. Nothing consciously planned, but it happens that way. I’m not sure if it’s becasue I train in both versions of the pivoting or if that is the way the human body just normally works…
This isn’t opinion, it’s just plain fact.
Not to try and start fights or anything, but how many of you that said balls of the feet actually go to a kung fu school?
Actually, that is opinion. Unless you can provide qualitative data regarding how much smoother your transition is than everyone else’s, that is.
But then, if you could do that, I doubt you’d be resorting to questioning whether those disagreeing with you actually train at a real school.
Originally posted by Scythefall
Heel, otherwise you have absolutely no root during the transition.
I gotta agree with this fella…
Yeah whjat scy said and…
I don’t know about anybody else. In my school our bow is much longer than our horse. The back foot doesn’t do anything, it stays put(the toes can come in a few degrees). The front foot isn’t really going anywhere either. What should be happeneing (at least the way we do it) is that the back leg is extending and the front foot is displaced forward by the length of the extending leg.
Hmm
Rooting on the heel will get you pushed (or worse) over. Try rooting into the arch. Have a partner push and put the weight on the arch, heel, and ball..see what happens. Just try it before commenting. Here’s another. Try walking on the heels and balls of the foot, see which seems more mobile. Root to the arch and turn on the balls of the foot. But I’m a Bagua guy. My horse and Bow are pretty much the same length.
Buddy
Maybe you’re talking about two different things. I believe the question was just about while pivoting.
‘pivot on the arch’ is the closest answer to mine so far.
unless I’m in a more specific stance like cat(ball of foot only), snake(toe only) or mantis 7* stance(heel only) then I distribute my weight 60% to the ball of the foot and 40% to the heel. That way I have a good mix of stability (root) and mobility.
imo, you get caught mid pivot on your heels you will soon end up pivoting on your ass.
even in a bow n’ arrow/hill climbing you should not have more weight on your heel than the ball of your foot. the heel is down and provides structure to the entire platform but you must move the weight to the ball of the foot before you can move that back leg quickly.
Seems there is a variety of teachings on this matter
imagine that !!!
Part of the answer lies in knowing what you are doing with the upper body, also knowing the application, and also what the kuahip/waist area is doing.
If you go to:
http://www.wutangcenter.com/wt/index.html
{You need to got to Articles—>2 baji articles, Journal of Asian Martial Arts, Article #1} No direct link.
Article 1 Pictures 2A through 2E, you might find that the entire foot rotates and if you are punching to with your right some of the distribution, although rotating the entire foot, focuses on the right heel while the entire left foot simultaneously rotates but the weight distribution is more towards the ball of the foot. Although the entire foot remains on the ground, the weight distribution is not even during the rotation.
the toes of the right heel are not lifted and the heel of the left is not raised. Its not a double-weighted rotation of the foot and some of it depends on how relaxed the kua/hip area is and how it is sunk. Its like pushing a basketball down in water. While the feet both remain on the ground, the weight distribution is not even during the rotation.
You might scroll up to see the type of horsestance used in this movement and you might note that the punch of the outward fist is driven but the power of the arm driving back. Its a rotated but balanced twist and achieved primarily by a lot of repetition over a long period of time.
I don’t know whether this is unique to the baji system I understand but it works. In the two man set, both partners square of in a horse-stance and end up punching at each other shoulder or one can block and rediret the punch to the shoulder area.
I don’t know if this captures it.
Since our bow stance is wider than our horse stance we have to step into the bow, not just pivot into it.
I push off with my back foot and then pivot on my ball and plant the foot. I have the foot planted before the front foot has come down from the step and again I push off for a little forward motion. There is a lot of little stuff going on that I never really noticed untill I got up and did it.
There can be some confusion on what is occuring with the different responses. The whole foot staying planted with weight on it while turning could take out the knee. I know that is not what was meant.
This reminds me of an article in Black Belt Magazine about 5 years ago (when I actually read it occassionally) written by a karate guy explaining the correct way to walk. “Tense your outside muscles and slide your foot forward in a C motion while gripping the floor with your toe” BLAH BLAH BLAH…It really just doesn’t matter.
What exactly are we discussing right now? Something that doesn’t really matter in my opinion… especially when compared to actual combat and/or competition as a whole.
I never was told how to transition from horsestance to bow-and-arrow or vice-versa and I can tell you that in my hundreds of matches in highschool wrestling competition and practice it didn’t matter one flying bit. When you practice (i’m not talking about forms) you learn to do it right and the way that is best for you in different situations and for different moves.
…and that is all I have to say about that