How do you think the present state of this forum is viewed by newcomers to wing chun?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
1

Just as the thread states…there are new people coming to view this forum probably on a regular basis. People who are new to wing chun and want to find out more about it, or people who simply want to discuss ideas and theories with others outside of their school.

Given all the pee-pee measuring discussions that seem to have proliferated on this forum, how do you think that effects those “newcomers” who wish to learn about the art of wing chun?

It used to be many years ago (right at the turn of the century), I’d get on this forum to discuss various techniques, situations, theories, and etcetera…whereby the conversations would develop in an almost scientific fashion. There were quite a few higher skilled wing chun folks who would contribute, and those conversations not only were enlightening, they were helpful to everyone.

The best part was…the conversations stayed on topic or flowed naturally based on the ideas being presented. If someone disagreed, it was discussed in an intelligent manner to try and come to a conclusion of truth.

Soooo…wtf happened?! We are the ones that will decide the future of this forum with the discussions we make, and right now, this forum is going down the crapper.

2

Hmmm. I think it’s highly possible that I’ve been posting on a different forum than the one you’re talking about.

3

There is still a lot of good content on this site, you just have to filter through the BS. As long as people are involved these problems will continue, however; if you read something on here you think is stupid or wrong or different from what you were taught, at least give it some thought. You might find some gold in the poo.

4

Any newcomers to this forum would probably walk away in a state of confusion. The threads always end up the sameway, the same silly p!ssing matches are taking place. People are plain and simply promoting their own agenda’s or ideas and are unable to accept or listen to a differing opinion without taking it personally. There is evidence of this type of behaviour everywhere on this forum. Plus some have admitted to only being here to troll and ring people’s bells. Why a grown, educated, mature person would want to do that is beyond me. If that type of behaviour gets you goind and out of bed in the morning then you have major problems IMO.

There are some good ideas floating around, like the idea of making your training as realistic as possible so that one can have effective combat skills. The problem is we CANNOT discuss things like application on a forum, application is done when two or more people get together and have actual physical contact with one another. Things change, perspectives change, understanding changes when people meet up for real. The only thing we can discuss here is the theory or concept behind what we are doing, and our own experiences with it. Our own experiences with it really only have meaning to ourselves, as how can something that happened to us specifically effect what others can do or not do. Ultimately it is up to each individual to decide what they want out of their Martial Arts training and then go from there to achieve that goal. As long as they are being honest with themselves things should work out fine.

James

5

I"m with you there

[QUOTE=sihing;989800]Any newcomers to this forum would probably walk away in a state of confusion. The threads all always ending up the sameway, the same silly p!ssing matches are taking place. People are plain and simply promoting their own agenda’s or ideas and are unable to accept or listen to a differing opinion without taking it personally. There is evidence of this type of behaviour everywhere on this forum. Plus some have admitted to only being here to troll and ring people’s bells. Why a grown, educated, mature person would want to do that is beyond me. If that type of behaviour gets you goind and out of bed in the morning then you have major problems IMO.

There are some good ideas floating around, like the idea of making your training as realistic as possible so that one can have effective combat skills. The problem is we CANNOT discuss things like application on a forum, application is done when two or more people get together and have actual physical contact with one another. Things change, perspectives change, understanding changes when people meet up for real. The only thing we can discuss here is the theory or concept behind what we are doing, and our own experiences with it. Our own experiences with it really only have meaning to ourselves, as how can something that happened to us specifically effect what others can do or not do. Ultimately it is up to each individual to decide what they want out of their Martial Arts training and then go from there to achieve that goal. As long as they are being honest with themselves things should work out fine.

James[/QUOTE]

Bingo!! However, since this is an public forum, we all have to put up with detractors and flamers, too bad there is not an mute button when we needed. But then we’re no better than they are by denying their freedom of speech.

Long as this is an public forum, there will be individual (s) out there think they can dominate, to give self importance, and with total disregard to the core purpose or the original intent of this or any other forum.

Did you say trolls???

6

There are too many people with no real experience in WC cluttering up the board. A heavy dose of moderation is needed to sweep this board clean so that legitimate discussions can occur.

7

i tried to get a thread about biu jee and it turned into a fight over the use of the word block.

8

[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;989811]There are too many people with no real experience in WC cluttering up the board. A heavy dose of moderation is needed to sweep this board clean so that legitimate discussions can occur.[/QUOTE]

If you start to moderate what people are saying and only letting certain discussions to take place, then you are taking away peoples right to express themselves. Plus, maybe the moderators have their own ideas on things and this may influence the forum too much to go into a certain direction (not saying this is what is happening now, I very much like how the moderator’s are doing their jobs).

A good thing to do is to not take anything to personal when discussing things. You say your peace online, you have to expect someone to challenge it or even put what you said down, that’s what happens here. You can answer it all you want, but when you don’t take it personally, or feel threatened by it, you can answer in a logical or moderate way, not promoting all of these p!ssing matches trying to make each other look wrong or incompetent.

Dale and Terence have lots to say, and some of it is very good advice, but there’s alot of indirect name calling, no respect is shown and when that is the case, something else is going on. They are feeling superior for some reason when they post here, as what other reason would they post or reply to threads on a very specific MA forum that they don’t believe in. Especially as often as they do, repeating themselves. It’s like me going on a kids karate or kung fu forum, and telling them they are weaklings and don’t know what the reality of fighting is all about, it’s ridiculous.

James

9

[QUOTE=Vankuen;989780]Just as the thread states…there are new people coming to view this forum probably on a regular basis. People who are new to wing chun and want to find out more about it, or people who simply want to discuss ideas and theories with others outside of their school.

Given all the pee-pee measuring discussions that seem to have proliferated on this forum, how do you think that effects those “newcomers” who wish to learn about the art of wing chun?

It used to be many years ago (right at the turn of the century), I’d get on this forum to discuss various techniques, situations, theories, and etcetera…whereby the conversations would develop in an almost scientific fashion. There were quite a few higher skilled wing chun folks who would contribute, and those conversations not only were enlightening, they were helpful to everyone.

The best part was…the conversations stayed on topic or flowed naturally based on the ideas being presented. If someone disagreed, it was discussed in an intelligent manner to try and come to a conclusion of truth.

Soooo…wtf happened?! We are the ones that will decide the future of this forum with the discussions we make, and right now, this forum is going down the crapper.[/QUOTE]

***GOOD to see you back on here, Van…I always enjoyed your posts. What happened was that two guys, Terence Niehoff and Dale Franks, (Knifefighter) basically hijack every thread having to do with techniques, training methods, etc…

and turn it into a pee-pee contest.

But frankly, this couldn’t happen so often if most people around here refused to take the bait.

But by God, they do! :rolleyes: :cool:

Either no response or a quick, “you’re full of 5hit” response followed by a significant post back on topic would solve the problem - but few people take this approach.

10

Van, if you could put up a video of yourself and others posting on this forum in an intelligent manner in real time, with real opposing views, as you claim occurred years ago, perhaps I would believe you.
Until then, you are just living in your fantasy.

11

[QUOTE=Ultimatewingchun;989822]***GOOD to see you back on here, Van…I always enjoyed your posts. What happened was that two guys, Terence Niehoff and Dale Franks, (Knifefighter) basically hijack every thread having to do with techniques, training methods, etc…

and turn it into a pee-pee contest.

But frankly, this couldn’t happen so often if most people around here refused to take the bait.

But by God, they do! :rolleyes: :cool:

Either no response or a quick, “you’re full of 5hit” response followed by a significant post back on topic would solve the problem - but few people take this approach.[/QUOTE]

I’m always here, I just don’t post every day or as often. I’ll read things for a while and every so often post up.

Life’s been getting in the way of screwing off online. Finishing a degree, working, family, etc. I have faith though that this forum will get back to its wing chun roots…because if someone is looking for help specific to wing chun, they’ll be hard pressed to find it here as it was years ago. Before it was 90% relative information from people who practiced the art, whereas now its 90% trash with the occasional tidbit that is useful.

We’ve got too many extremists–either too far out into fantasy land or too far into the MMA land. I just wish that this forum was indeed taken back by those who practice wing chun AND believe in its usefulness.

12

[QUOTE=HumbleWCGuy;989811]There are too many people with no real experience in WC cluttering up the board. A heavy dose of moderation is needed to sweep this board clean so that legitimate discussions can occur.[/QUOTE]

Yet how do you validate one’s understanding of wing chun and more importantly fighting prowess over the internet?

It’s important to have people who have real experience in wing chun, but are also grounded in the fact that they practice application as much as theory. The problem lies when you’ve got a person who’s never tested anything trying to prove a point to someone who tests everything and has come up with a different conclusion.

This is something we’ll have to work through progressively it seems…because its not going so well right now. Long story short–there’s a lack of respect amongst people and how they go about communicating.

13

Forum facts:

  1. Newbies come on the forum and ask newbie questions. Hilarity ensues.

  2. Neophytes come on the forum and dispense dogma. Hilarity ensues.

  3. Detractors (trolls of all kinds) come on the forum. Hilarity ensues.

  4. Genuinely open and progressive people come on the forum and discuss. Hilarity ensues.

What #4 talks about eventually gets accepted by most of #1, #2 and #3, but not without intense initial protests and eventual personal epiphanies which they end up posting as their own counterpoints, oblivious to the fact that they are now agreeing with what it is they were disagreeing with before - even to the point of using their newfound “argument” against the very people who put the argument forth in the first place. hilARious! :smiley:

Still, I see this as a good thing. No matter who thought of a good idea first: if it has merit, let it grow and evolve without ownership. The end result will be progressively deeper threads alongside the newbie, troll and neophyte posts.

14

So we have people from a large portion of the active WCK lineages posting here. And we have hilarity.

What more could you ask for?

15

[QUOTE=sihing;989817]If you start to moderate what people are saying and only letting certain discussions to take place, then you are taking away peoples right to express themselves. Plus, maybe the moderators have their own ideas on things and this may influence the forum too much to go into a certain direction (not saying this is what is happening now, I very much like how the moderator’s are doing their jobs).

A good thing to do is to not take anything to personal when discussing things. You say your peace online, you have to expect someone to challenge it or even put what you said down, that’s what happens here. You can answer it all you want, but when you don’t take it personally, or feel threatened by it, you can answer in a logical or moderate way, not promoting all of these p!ssing matches trying to make each other look wrong or incompetent.

Dale and Terence have lots to say, and some of it is very good advice, but there’s alot of indirect name calling, no respect is shown and when that is the case, something else is going on. They are feeling superior for some reason when they post here, as what other reason would they post or reply to threads on a very specific MA forum that they don’t believe in. Especially as often as they do, repeating themselves. It’s like me going on a kids karate or kung fu forum, and telling them they are weaklings and don’t know what the reality of fighting is all about, it’s ridiculous.

James[/QUOTE]

This forum is privately owned and there is no right to free expression on it. Dale and Terrence do not have lots to say IMO, rather they just repeat the same platitudes over and over without having proper understanding of WC. Dale does not believe that WC is effective at all which makes him a troll.

16

[QUOTE=Wayfaring;989861]So we have people from a large portion of the active WCK lineages posting here. And we have hilarity.

What more could you ask for?[/QUOTE]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B9q2jNjOPdk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DIyr5TXqe8Y&feature=related :smiley:

17

It’s your choice

Hello,

This forum used to be moderated more aggressively and not everyone was happy with that approach. As this is essentially YOUR forum the option of less overt moderation was the choice of the majority.

You can’t please everyone and you can’t have it both ways. Intense moderation makes some people unhappy and less moderation makes others unhappy.

I myself am a bit saddened by the state of the forum currently, however I am not blameless as I have also taken part in some of the “pee pee” threads.

If the majority of those posting here wish more moderation than that can be arranged. However, not everyone will be happy with that approach. Also, my feeling is that those who do not contribute to the edification of the forum would not be permitted to post here. Quite a few rather knowledgable posters with some valid opinions could fall into that catagory.

Like I said this is your forum so it really is up to y’all how things go.

18

The forum probably doesn’t present a great image to newcomers, but I personally am not presenting myself as any sort of stylistic ambassador or example of anything. Others like T seem to be on some mission or ego self-stroking, but that’s their problem.

I don’t see a problem with calling, or being called on, making overly bombastic, pompous or egotistical statements, indulging in poorly disguised marketing campaigns, spamming every thread with your own storm-in-a-teacup epiphanies which many came to long before you did, or writing cheques with your ego your body can’t cash.

IMO the ignore list is a better option than moderation. Sometimes those crying out for moderation are among those most crying out to be moderated.

As for the level of moderation, IMO the way it is is fine.

19

Moderation should be present for certain instances…

  • People who are obviously more trouble than they're worth--wing chun practitioner or not.
  • People who haven't studied wing chun at all and are only here to stroke their own ego's and poke at others'.
  • People that do nothing but make personal attacks and offer no true value to a thread.

Now don’t get me wrong, the occasional disagreement is understandable, even I’ve been drawn into it before…but there are certin individuals here that have the same MO day in and day out and constantly cause drama.

Take out those liabilities and you will have regained the homeostasis that this forum once had.

20

If the ongoing message is essentially that classical WCK training, no matter how you do it is crap then this kind of post has no place in a forum that exists to discuss same.. Folks who do this are not suggesting how to make the classical program better they are essentially advocating it’s demise.. While these posters may have something to contribute of value their primary premise does not belong in a forum that exists to discuss a subject they deem unworthy of existence–yes it’s called trolling..

Those posts belong in another forum under a thread called “Why TMAs suck and are almost valueless..”