Im not sure why my post,s get removed when there are so many other people insulting each other. But here goes,perhaps i wont be erased this time.
HFY says that all WC that uses the 3 forms comes from the HFY family. Jeremy has said this numerous times. MAny people have asked about your family to find the truth. We all have a burning passion for WC. The VTM and HFy denies having anything to do with “marketing”. Well you wont answer any questions but say the"book will be out" . So its all about selling thebook isnt it? Why cant we just talk about WC? Where did HFY come from? And where is the proof? You make claims but back up nothing. You critisize Hendrik for doing the very same thing. Why cant we openly compare HFy history with the Chu family? I will provide what i know from Koolo family for interest sake.
This is better than a sitcom!!!
Why cant we openly compare HFy history with the Chu family? I will provide what i know from Koolo family for interest sake.
Is this going to be the response Jim was waiting for:confused:
Jim already got my responce but the entire post was removed. Im not sure if he got the cahnce to read it before its “removal” I hope he did get to read it though. Why are you so interested? You need to help get that groundbreaking HFY book ready for the world.
History or Myth? Or Just Whole Cloth Marketing?
Originally posted by bloodgod
Jim already got my responce but the entire post was removed. Im not sure if he got the cahnce to read it before its “removal” I hope he did get to read it though. Why are you so interested? You need to help get that groundbreaking HFY book ready for the world.
There is no proof of historical contentions in Wing Chun, because no recorded documentation from the beginnings seems to exist. Anyone can therefore contend anything, apparently, and do so for their own purposes.
It is a good question why these “histories” were never asserted when Yip Man was around and only coming forward years after YM’s death? The clear assumption is that all these marginal dubious lineages with undocumented histories were afraid to assert themselves when that meant challenge from the mainstream Wing Chun lineage.
Regards,
Those are good points Grendel!
Re: History or Myth? Or Just Whole Cloth Marketing?
Originally posted by Grendel
[B]
There is no proof of historical contentions in Wing Chun, because no recorded documentation from the beginnings seems to exist. Anyone can therefore contend anything, apparently, and do so for their own purposes.
It is a good question why these “histories” were never asserted when Yip Man was around and only coming forward years after YM’s death? The clear assumption is that all these marginal dubious lineages with undocumented histories were afraid to assert themselves when that meant challenge from the mainstream Wing Chun lineage.
Regards, [/B]
Gentlemen,
Please excuse the saying, but we cannot put the cart before the horse! (wait for the book for a fair trial!) Assumptions such as the above quoted should not be taken to full conclusion until the HFY family’s book has been distributed and analyzed by the public. They are not being any more “secretive” than their numerous articles which have already been internationally published by some of the most well known Martial Arts magazines (like this one)! And it isn’t any more of a “marketing” cloth as there are also other martial disciplines that have had many published articles! Should we call them “Marketing Hype” also? But truly, if we want answers why not write, or call, or visit the HFY branches (if close to one) and get the answers straight from the source?
This forum allows us to only offer so much. Most of the threads here have the idea that HFY can explain itself in a few postings on the Internet. But think about it, after all this, after ALL the postings (even the larger ones that Jeremy from the VTM have posted), the HFY family is bringing to the world an EXTREMELY in-depth and comprehensive BOOK with photos and illustrations just on HFYWCK! The first one in history no less! A BOOK! If I am correct it’s going to be over 200 pages, single spaced, and NO… not big letter type stuff here! If you want some already tangible articles on HFY, do some research… it’s out there! Seriously! Qigong Wushu Magazine, Inside Kung Fu magazine… I don’t have any to reference at hand. It’s late for me. Write more laterz…
-Savi.
Re: History or Myth? Or Just Whole Cloth Marketing?
…the HFY family is bringing to the world an EXTREMELY in-depth and comprehensive BOOK with photos and illustrations just on HFYWCK! The first one in history no less! A BOOK! If I am correct it’s going to be over 200 pages, single spaced, …
I have been following the HFY threads for a while, and I personally feel that the VTM group is quite political and a little too blind in what they’re doing… Again, that’s just me.
Even though they preach time, space and energy, but no one can seem to explain much about it (at least in this forum), and I really wonder if they truly understand the concepts other than Master Gee.
Also, it seems like they also use many techniques/drills unique to Yip Man and YKS wing chun, i.e. Dan Chi Sau (YM) and Luk Sau (YKS). This seems wierd.
A book about the HFY? is the VTM in the “fund-raising” mode again??
Just kinda too creepy to me.
Thanks Savi for putting that in perspective! Everyone here gives some good points and i do believe that first hand experience is the way to go. I don’t know why everyone is giving HFY negetive comments.
If anyone thinks HFY is just marketing hype, well don’t read it then! I personally like learning about other lineages other forms of histories. Becuase there are no documentations on the history of WCK, it’s hard to say which is the real history.
CHS! i think what you said was very unnecessary. Have you ever met anyone from the VTM?? They are every very nice and humble group. I think they do a good job in trying to look for any history on wingchun and then present to the public. I don’t see anyone else doing it. And besides, from what i’ve been reading, the VTM never was Preaching anything. What i read was people asking them questions and they simply answer them. Nothing creepy about that.
Marketing come on.
CHS,
Your claims of marketing and fundraising are of a offensive nature. How ever I will entertain your claims just this one time. I find it amazingly silly that you would accuse the VTM of marketing HFY. Or producing a book on WCK in the sole purpose to make money.
Again just to entertain your remarks. I point out how these claim lack any logic what so ever. Ok let’s discuss marketing 101. If the VTM was interested in marketing or making a huge name. wouldn’t it be logical to go with a system that is known world wide? (people by what they know) wouldn’t it be logical to flood the market if you will with information about the product? I keep hearing how people have the feeling that we are not offern enough information on the topic. Availability and access to the product is the life and death of a product. Sp how would our come and see in person approach be consistant with this fundemental concept?Amoung other things it is clear that your claim go beyond any basic concept of marketing. So please do not accuse the museum or the HFY family of such disrespect of this treasure.
The idea that the production of a book is a fundraising tool for the VTM is just as off base as your last claim. When you take in a account the man hours and research that goes into writing a book of this nature. It is hardly one of a money making venture. keep in mind when you produce a bookof this nature the chances of breaking even can be very slim let alone making a profit. This does not hold water in the arena of logic. so please do not accuse the VTM or the HFY family of these things. The offer of information on both accounts are those in the spirit of sharing. I’m sorry but books are not free. However I think once on reads this extremely informative book it will change your views on many things. If not change your views I think it will challenge one to think deeper. The purpose of the book is to bring a better understanding of Wing chun as we know it. I think in the end you aree that it will be well worth your time a resorces. The internet has it’s restictions a book has a more captive audience (if you will). So the ideas can be completed with out interuption and a deeper explination can be offered. None the less a book is still the written word and will lack clearity of face to face interaction and experiences. The VTM’s release of this book is one to display the fruit of it’s research and give a indepth look into WCK.
Chango (SGS) 
I think Rene said something similiar about this??
keep in mind when you produce a bookof this nature the chances of breaking even can be very slim let alone making a profit.
I think Rene made mention to the same experiance about Complete Wing Chun some time ago on the WCML.
That suprised me seeing as I found it to be very informative,a must buy for anyone interested in an overview of other styles of WCK.
Sheldon;)
Complete Wing Chun wasn’t so bad because I had 2 other authors, as well as many kind folks who shares photos, etc. Still, what with shipping around the world during collaboration, and getting together once to finalize, it was still out of pocket (and probably will remain so until we do a new version with Bruce Lee on the cover )
The YKS book was more expensive for me personally because I shot and developed (and shot and developed and…) all the photos myself, which really added up (we wanted to do them “live” with about 80% power/speed and that meant a lot of missed shots, a lot of re-shoots, etc.) and I had to make a trip to the designer to fix some problems, so all told, an expensive proposition for which I don’t believe I’ll ever recoup the investment. But that wasn’t the purpose anyway.
RR
Thank your for your input gentlemen
Sheldon, Rene,
Thankyou for your input. I hope you guys enjoy the book when it comes out. I have had a glance at some of the information included. I can only say that I’m very proud to be apart of the VTM and I can appreciate what it takes to build such a work.
Chango (SGS)
To Chango and others from the VTM. I am not sure where to put this but since the topic in HFY I’ll put it here. I ask this because you have compared HFY to TWC. You have said that even though the empty hand forms of these 2 styles share a great deal of choreography they are totally distinct and not related. Just today a friend passing through town played a very old,from the early 80s, seminar of William Cheung. In this he went into some detail of TWC fighting strategies and the use of time and space. Use of a technique within the proper time and space seemed a main theme. How is the TWC use of Time and Space in their fighting strategies different from HFYs usage? Is the fact that the 2 styles share a great deal of choreography of forms just a feak occurence?
To Hunt1: Why the Formula of course!
The answer would be that William doesn’t know the FORMULA!
“What’s the frequency Kenneth?” <– as said to Dan Rather.
Re: Marketing come-on 101.
- Why chose a unknown system?
Ok, let’s try and do this without naming names and violating the sacred tenets of this forum… 
a) Sifu “X” says he has the traditional heretofore secret Wing Chun.
b) Sifu “Y” says he is the last closed door student of famous Sifu “N” and declares himself 8th dan of system.
c) Sifu “Z” becomes the last student of mainland chinese Sifu of other mainland Wing Chun system.
All are real people, all were looking for a differentiator. All marketing approaches to say “Hey! I have something unique here which you can ONLY get from my organization”. It is brand marketing. If everyone else is selling soap, you have to make yours appear different.
Traditional vs Modified
Scientific vs Personal Expression
The Original Wing Chun vs Modified Wing Chun
etc. etc. etc.
Now mix in a dash of oriental mysticism, secret training, mainland authenticity and gwailos will just eat it up! :rolleyes:
Or at least in the old days people would. The pattern is pretty clear, and the HFY press relea…err “articles” in IKF/KF-Qigong have been along those lines. It may very well not be the VTM’s intention, but that is the perception from out here in the cheap seats.
Good luck with the book, I’ll be sure to pick up a copy when it comes out.
Peace out
Originally posted by Chango
[B]CHS,
Your claims of marketing and fundraising are of a offensive nature. How ever I will entertain your claims just this one time. I find it amazingly silly that you would accuse the VTM of marketing HFY. Or producing a book on WCK in the sole purpose to make money.
Again just to entertain your remarks. I point out how these claim lack any logic what so ever. Ok let’s discuss marketing 101. If the VTM was interested in marketing or making a huge name. wouldn’t it be logical to go with a system that is known world wide? (people by what they know) wouldn’t it be logical to flood the market if you will with information about the product? I keep hearing how people have the feeling that we are not offern enough information on the topic. Availability and access to the product is the life and death of a product. Sp how would our come and see in person approach be consistant with this fundemental concept?Amoung other things it is clear that your claim go beyond any basic concept of marketing. So please do not accuse the museum or the HFY family of such disrespect of this treasure.
Chango (SGS) [/B]
It looks like a duck and quacks like a duck
Secret formulas. Quasi-religious cults. New versions of history. Endless attitude and debate.
Humbug.
And for drumming up support, ironic.
You only answer questions when you have an answer to give. The truth has been obvious for a long time.
Kind god
it is very simple!
BloodGod,
I have better things to do with my time then contributing to arguments. The book is coming out for those that have genuine interest. keep in mind when reading this knowlege is precise. If you kinda have it or know it then you really don’t. So the higher ground has been taken here. I just hope that when you do recieve more information ego and other things do not get in the way. I truely understand your position. Given my strong personality I would respond the same way. In fact I hate to admit it I did respond in a very simular fashion until I learned more. That being said I will give you the last word. I understand. I’m sure it will be more of the same. I hope I’m wrong.
Chango (saat geng sau)
Hi Chango,
Good to see you again. It is a shame that you guys get so much abuse. Sorry to see it. You guys seem to be in a love/hate relationship with others.
When is that book comming out? I would be currious in picking it up. I hope it follows in Rene’s led of upping the antee for martial arts books. Tired of all the picture books. LOL. I’ll be keeping an eye out.
Hey, If I buy it from the museum, can I get all your guys’ autograph? I still need Rene’s, et all on the ther ones.
Tom P
Tom are you following me!!!
Hi Tom,
You not out to get Sandmans job are you, they already have a moderator over here;)
I’m only joking,good to see you over here:)
Sheldon:)