Greetings,
Thank you, SKM!!
I forgot how good the writing was. It was way better than the photos. The historical info will definitely shake up some assertions made here.
mickey
most welcome
[QUOTE=mickey;1289556]Greetings,
Thank you, SKM!!
I forgot how good the writing was. It was way better than the photos. The historical info will definitely shake up some assertions made here.
mickey[/QUOTE]
You are most welcome Mickey. Make your copy of the data. I will remove it tomorrow.
[QUOTE=mig;1289499]why in TCMA there is no ground fighting as in Jujitsu.[/QUOTE]
You may also ask, “Why BJJ has no mobility (run down) training?” The “ground game” and “mobility training - run your opponent down and then take off at the same time” are opposite to each other.
[QUOTE=bawang;1289545]
- now he claim bjj is not realistic[/QUOTE]
I know… Right?
The book CHIN NA FA: Skill of Catch and Hold, by Liu Jin Sheng, from 1936, has several rudimentary locks and chokes from the ground. The ground fighting really isn’t anything you can’t find anywhere else, but it does give Chinese names to common techniques we tend not to think of as “Kung Fu moves” today.
[QUOTE=MightyB;1289559]I know… Right?
[/QUOTE]
In the beginning you thought I was a troll then you seem to be invincible thinking that there is no ground fighting. BTW, I mentioned ground fighting not necessarily bjj and mentioned jj for the sake of clarity. Now, again, even if you spend time practicing horse stance (mabu or sipingma) you still may fall down is whatever circumstance. Let’s be clear, I am not talking ground fighting in tournaments or martial arts. There are some good answers that I am reading now to make better sense why I haven’t seen a TCMA emphasize ground fighting. Believe I don’t buy all the mma thing nor the gong fu either. It is more for the understanding in gongfu history and the importance of what to do when you fall in the ground to defend yourself.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1289558]You may also ask, “Why BJJ has no mobility (run down) training?” The “ground game” and “mobility training - run your opponent down and then take off at the same time” are opposite to each other.
//youtu.be/RJyJApwu7s8
[/QUOTE]
Really, is that the way it works? Tell me, I am curious, I see all these demos, why the guy who punches doesn’t react, do you think he’s going to do the way you are doing it. I see the application but you know that in real life the situation is different.
Greetings,
mig,
Check with SKM about what part of that article the categorization of techniques showed up in. I am presently unsure.
SKM,
I copied out that segment as soon as I saw it posted up. Aside from the Digong of Taiwan that I m posted up about a few years ago, the Tei Tong (Grand Earth) style was being taught in Hong Kong in the late 1970’s. I think the Sifu was one of the founding members of the Hong Kong Chinese martial Arts Association (don’t know his name). There is a chance that there is a quiet transmission of this style on the West Coast. This style does form a component of the Tai Sheng Pi Kua Men style,
Other articles about Chinese ground fighting were submitted by Douglas L. Wong in the mid 70’s and by John Fey circa 1980. I mention this just in case you were not aware of them, not that you might post them up.
mickey
[QUOTE=mickey;1289563]Aside from the Digong of Taiwan that I m posted up about a few years ago, the Tei Tong (Grand Earth) style was being taught in Hong Kong in the late 1970’s. I think the Sifu was one of the founding members of the Hong Kong Chinese martial Arts Association (don’t know his name). There is a chance that there is a quiet transmission of this style on the West Coast. This style does form a component of the Tai Sheng Pi Kua Men style,
mickey[/QUOTE]
Mickey, are you referring to Chan Sau-Chung?
part 1
[QUOTE=mickey;1289563]…what part of that article the categorization of techniques showed up in. I am presently unsure…John Fey circa 1980. I mention this just in case you were not aware of them…
mickey[/QUOTE]
The data was from Inside Kung Fu Magazine, Part I, pages 67-69, circa 1991. The data I posted was on page 68. The name of the article is, “Rolling on the Ground, Tumbling in the Sky- Secret Techniques of Ground Fighting.”
I knew a man in Oklahoma City, very early 80’s who called himself John Fey. He ran the OKC Wushu Institute. I trained with one of his students. I learned flying crane and drunken from the student. Wonder if it is the same ‘John Fey’ you make reference to.
Greetings,
Jimbo,
Not Chan Sau Chung of TSPK. There was a school distinct and separate from TSPK that taught the Tei Tong style.
SKM,
Thank you for clarifying the part and volume number.
That is the same John Fey. He wrote an article about “Dit Tang Men” (aka Tei Tong; different dialect, different transliteration of sound): in particular, about a very long form that he possessed that contained a partner set. Having never seen it, I don’t know about it nor about him.
mickey
[QUOTE=mickey;1289572]Greetings,
Jimbo,
Not Chan Sau Chung of TSPK. There was a school distinct and separate from TSPK that taught the Tei Tong style.
SKM,
Thank you for clarifying the part and volume number.
That is the same John Fey. He wrote an article about “Dit Tang Men” (aka Tei Tong; different dialect, different transliteration of sound): in particular, about a very long form that he possessed that contained a partner set. Having never seen it, I don’t know about it nor about him.
mickey[/QUOTE]
I appreciate your input and will read what I can. Thank you.
Greetings,
SKM,
I am trying like heck to find the magazine that has the article and I am getting dizzy. I have @ 500 magazines. What I do remember is the following:
-
The form is derived from the snake style.
-
It is called, “Sweeping Army of Thousands”. The name chimes in with the historical info provided by Grandmaster Alan Lee.
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The style Wah Kuen (Hua Chuan) has an altered version of it.
-
Required a specific breathing pattern to perform it well.
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It is one large form broken down into smaller sets, each set having it’s own training drills.
I contacted the people at Fey Family Shaolin (New Forest Way) several years ago. They still possess the form. They guard it like a precious jewel. The person you trained with on Oklahoma may be of assistance to you in finding out more.
mickey
Greetings mig,
You are welcome. A very special thanks should go to SKM for posting the excerpt.
mickey
testing
/Users/user/Desktop/Grand Earth 1.jpg
a passing…
@mig @mickey Thank you for your responses. An immediate family member just passed this morning so am occupied with that. Will resume this discussion once the mist has passed. Will return in several days.
Condolences to you and your family,
mickey
returned…
[QUOTE=mickey;1289585]Condolences to you and your family,
mickey[/QUOTE]
Thank you for the condolences. I am back to core now.
That is the same John Fey. He wrote an article about “Dit Tang Men” (aka Tei Tong; different dialect, different transliteration of sound): in particular, about a very long form that he possessed that contained a partner set. Having never seen it
I remember the article and one time when John had an open house at the OKC Wu Shu Institute, they actually gave a demo of the form, so I have seen it.
I contacted the people at Fey Family Shaolin (New Forest Way) several years ago. They still possess the form. They guard it like a precious jewel. The person you trained with on Oklahoma may be of assistance to you in finding out more.
I can imagine that it is a ‘precious jewel’. Training like that is ‘kuen’ training which means it is a single form that is a stand alone sub-system that can be attached to any primary system of training. Drunken is the same way. I have not been in contact with John Fey or his group for 25 years and am also too old to do the ground work anymore. During my time of flexibility, the Drunken Immortals contained more than enough ground work to keep me occupied. I still do drunken sans the ground work though.
It is called, “Sweeping Army of Thousands”. The name chimes in with the historical info provided by Grandmaster Alan Lee.
Great to get some cross reference to the validity of the training.
Greetings,
I guess seeing that form is on my bucket list, SKM.
I found the article. For those interested, it is called “The Grand Earth Style”, written by Mark Van Schuyver. January 1983, Volume 10 No.1.
mickey
[QUOTE=mickey;1289592]
I found the article. For those interested, it is called “The Grand Earth Style”, written by Mark Van Schuyver. January 1983, Volume 10 No.1.
mickey[/QUOTE]
Wow. Good find, mickey. I have that issue, along with almost all my other old MA magazines, in storage. I vaguely remember that article. At this point, I wouldn’t be willing to go dig through all the storage containers for it, but at least I now know the exact time period of that article. Thanks.