I would like to know what the opinion of learning forms are?
I believe that it forms(excuse the pun) the groundwork of CMA. All the practical applications are hidden within those “flashy and pointless” moves as one JKD practioner put it :mad:
No disrespect to JKD practioners, I have a lot of respect for Bruce and JKD but to fail to understand the practical importance of form is beyond me. I sometimes think that Westerners in general are always looking for shortcuts. Nobody within our cultures wants to spend hours finding their centre or practicing painfull stances but those things are what CMA is about, “work and time”. Without it we must as well be doing a sport like boxing where we can be awarded trophies for knocking our opponent out.
BTW I am a big fan of boxing.
My apologies for ranting but an anti-form person got in my way today:o
I’m glad you’re a big fan of boxing. But I’ll wager that working out for hours, then getting hit a lot by punches thrown with bad intentions is just as disinteresting to the general populace than doing sometimes painful forms and stancework.
It’s all hard work bub, and to categorize one as harder work than the other is a severe disservice. It takes just as much dedication and drive to master boxing as it does any other style.
Dude I think you’ll find a lot of agreement on this board.
I personally think that a MA with a lot of complex movements such as Kungfu needs forms to ingrain the movements into the mind and body. Its a form of training relevant to the form of the MA.
As a form of exercise it also has other physical benefits.
Which is nice.
BTW I don’t think forms can be used to train in isolation, and I agree with Merryprankster about the boxing.
i probably didn’t phrase it properly, I know boxing is hard and you are right in saying that you can’t say that it take years to master a style. What i meant was sport tends to take a lot of the essence out of something. I used boxing as an example to show that the technique can be learned to great effect, look at Tyson with that thunderous hook from his hip. But there is no real depth there. What i guess i’m really trying to say is, you can take one movement from a form and generate so many different applications with slight variances depending on your creativity and your experience. Form gives you carte blance to make your fighting style so personal…
Watch Roy Jones Jr dance or Muhammed Ali then watch old tapes of Tyson, back when he was good.
Shadow boxing IS “forms,” my friend. How you put together the basic techniques, coupled with your movement and fight tactics/strategy is putting your personal stamp on the fighting style.
You haven’t convinced me of any insight yet. Try harder.
tell that to the guys and gals who train FAR longer than most martial artists are willing to. why do you think there are so many levels of boxing, from amateur to full on pro, from local fights at small native american casinos to huge fights at harrah’s that you can see in madagasgar if you pay the $49.95 fee.
millions of people in this world box, but VERY few hold a change in hell at beating a reigning champion from one of the three big organizations.
just because boxing doesn’t do standing meditation for chi development does not mean it has no depth. compare it to the everyday tai chi that’s taught to geriatrics and college students at the local ymca, and then tell me that boxing has no depth.
I must apologise for saying that boxing has no depth, the variety of fighting styles within the limitations of punching is quite substantial as in the example of shadow boxing by putting those various techniques together. I can watch boxing and just be amazed by the speed, agiltiy and endurance of those fighters. I guess i was still kinda p*ssed off by the comment about forms that i made the same mistake that guy made.
Hey no worries! We’re all a little attached to the things we do
Can forms be useful? Yes. As long as it’s understood that a form is just a training tool, like any other, and it has its place and purpose. When it is used for that purpose, good things happen. If it is used out of context, you get crap results.
dude, you kinda summed up what i was trying to say about forms, when used properly great things can happens for the practitioner and thats why people shouldn’t knock on it.
BTW It’s cool to know people are passionate about their arts here
What they knock on are people who place too much emphasis on forms at the expense of other aspects (like actually hitting each other). This translates into crap.
They should neither be over nor under emphasized. They have their place.
It’s more about training methods than “forms” themselves.
Heh, I just read the posts…my previous remark was based on the topic. Forms a waste of time. So I got a little annoyed. Sorry dude. Anyway, as far as forms being useful, they are very useful and necessary. They help coordinate your body with your mind. It helps with accuracy, focus, power, execution, speed..all the biggies. Let me explain power and execution…normally you would think that in order to refine those, you should spar, and you are right. Sparring is a major part of my training, plus bag work. However, imho, it takes more mental effort to slow down your movement than to speed it up. Forms and other slow moving excercises help refine the mind to a point, and this is essential to be successful in sparring and especially placing hands (an excercise where we play our arms to get an advantage against an opponent) After pairing all this with sensitivity and sticking training, and iron hand and iron arm,it all eventually clicks together. Imho, the reason CMA is losing so many good people to MMA and “Reality” :rolleyes: styles, is because there is no immediate payoff with KF. In karate and Tae Kwon Do, you can learn some pretty cool kicks and punches (all linear and hard) within a short amount of time, like 6 months. No, I’m not just assuming this, I took both styles. The reality dudes want self defense NOW and don’t want to learn all those wimpy forms first. This stuff is just starting (I do mean just beginning) to click for me and its been three and a half years(full time..like 6 days a week..not 2). I haven’t even skimmed the surface yet. You can spend a whole lifetime studying KF and still have more to learn. Tai Chi for instance has 108 forms, and I’m barely at the false ending! It takes special dedication to be skilled at anything, and these guys that bounce from school to school, I often wonder how they can become proficient at all. You get out of KF what you put into it. Period.
Gabriel
P.S. - I still think that if you take two guys of equal strength, aptness to learn, and athletic ability ect. threw one in boxing and one in MA, for the same amount of time and physical effort, the MA guy would beat the boxing guy. Why? MA guy has alot more weapons. just my opinion though. Im sure it won’t mean much to some of you. peace.
Many people have their own opinion and purpose for forms, but I can tell you that they are definitely NOT useless.
They are good physical workout routines, good for improving reflexes and more or less good for intercepting fist (Bruce would probably kill me for saying this, but that’s what I think).
My opinion about western boxing is that it simply has no depth, like Kilik said. That’s my view on boxing, although I haven’t had much experience in boxing myself but hey come on I know what it’s like even from little experience. No offence was meant whatsoever. I respect boxing as an art and sport, but my honest opinion about it is that it has no depth. Most sports tend to have no depth.
Only one, if the opponent can’t defend against it. Of course, you need to be able to defend against anything the opponent in question may throw at you, too.
Y’know, that sounds like a good thread idea: recipes for winning a fight.
