Since I am not getting a reply and I don’t have all the time in the universe…
There is indeed a way that, if weight lifting is done “incorrectly” it can have adverse effects on the “jing” of many southern hands, including Chow Gar.
Many people focus on the concentric phase of the lift, the “push” if you will and this can not only lead to imbalance in power, but in tendon strenght, because while the mucles is used to the “force” of the concentric phase, it is weak in the eccentric part, the “pulling” part if you will.
The eccentric part of any move is the strongest part and many southern hand emphazie the part in their moves, that “snap back” for lack of a better way of putting it, is what gives their “shock” or “scared” jing that kick.
Of course, proper ST does indeed develop the eccentric part of the movement, indeed, some forms of ST actually emphasize it.
And now he comes out and in not so many words says that he doesn’t know what internals are.
For one i never told you anything about myself. You presumed a lot about me from our conversation, which is understandable this is the interwebss…
your definition of internal and mine are on total opposite ends of the universe so in my saying I guess i don’t know what your “internal” is then.
I have no problem with what you do HW8 it’s your bashing of people like myself who train in many different arts. Debasing and snide comments bring people outta the woodwork for flame wars if you haven’t noticed. you throw offhanded comments about others training in arrogant terms. I have no problem with many on here that do TCMA hell even UKI and his awkwardness I respect in a sense for his time and dedication to what he does even if I don’t believe in it.
You ask for respect for what you do? I suggest maybe giving a little to those who cross train and do MMA then maybe you’ll recieve some in like return.
Hey Sanjuro, thanks for the article! Great read. I once had the pleasant lesson of shaking a Chen instructor’s hand. For the first time, I experienced what it meant to have “iron wrapped in cotton.”
One thing the article doesn’t address is weight increase. I feel that smooth, small, progressive weight increases every 10-14 days are ok, especially if the reps and sets are being kept way low, like 1 a day.
I do believe that shaolin trained progressively with weights… stone and iron balls, that kind of thing.
[QUOTE=Xiao3 Meng4;972794]Hey Sanjuro, thanks for the article! Great read. I once had the pleasant lesson of shaking a Chen instructor’s hand. For the first time, I experienced what it meant to have “iron wrapped in cotton.”
One thing the article doesn’t address is weight increase. I feel that smooth, small, progressive weight increases every 10-14 days are ok, especially if the reps and sets are being kept way low, like 1 a day.
I do believe that shaolin trained progressively with weights… stone and iron balls, that kind of thing.[/QUOTE]
When I was in China for the Olympics I was introduced to a fellow from the Chen village, very nice guy, he had just turned 56 and had been doing Chen Taiji since he was 4, we had a really nice chat for about 3 hours, LOL !
I felt bad for my friend who had to interpret some of the stuff !
The “iron wrapped in cotton” is quite correct.
Funny thing, he wanted to chat about HIIT at one point !
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;972783]Yep, I didn’t think you’d know the answer to my question, you are so transparent !
LOL !
Do you even realize that vast types of ST there are? which one would you like me to comment on?
It is a simple question that I ask you, WHICH WEIGHT TRAINING PROTOCOL are you referring to?[/quote]
That question is irrelevant. Weight training in general is seen to negate various qualities the Chow Gar system aims to achieve. So take your pick.
It is becoming very apparent that you are not as familiar with it as you think!
Your familiarity seems to be superficial and adequate for a typical cross trainer.
ANY weight training using weight traininig equipment or weights…go crazy…LOL
Did you know that we are even discouraged from doing press ups??
You have no idea of this methodology and how deep this style goes!!!
Sorry to take so long, I was delayed because I was answering one of your clueless posts in the Southern Forum. Please accept my apology.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;972795]When I was in China for the Olympics I was introduced to a fellow from the Chen village, very nice guy, he had just turned 56 and had been doing Chen Taiji since he was 4, we had a really nice chat for about 3 hours, LOL !
I felt bad for my friend who had to interpret some of the stuff !
The “iron wrapped in cotton” is quite correct.
Funny thing, he wanted to chat about HIIT at one point ![/QUOTE]
Those kinds of encounters are always interesting. That’s cool that he wanted to talk HIIT with you - maybe he’d heard about something like this?
[QUOTE=Xiao3 Meng4;972799]Those kinds of encounters are always interesting. That’s cool that he wanted to talk HIIT with you - maybe he’d heard about something like this?[/QUOTE]
Very cool.
Nice find.
He wanted to discuss HIIT because he felt, quite correctly of course, that HIIT is a far truer example of the conditioning needed for real fighting.
See, your muscles don’t know what they are doing when they are being exposed to load stress, they don’t know if the load is barbell, a sand bag, or another person.
They just know that they are being put under stress and they adapt and overcome.
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;972797]No problem, I understand, I am not anything if not understanding of your short comings my dear friend from Pereira.
Take your time.
:D[/QUOTE]
He wanted to discuss HIIT because he felt, quite correctly of course, that HIIT is a far truer example of the conditioning needed for real fighting.
[/quote]
Did you guys talk about circuit building as part of it?
See, your muscles don’t know what they are doing when they are being exposed to load stress, they don’t know if the load is barbell, a sand bag, or another person.
They just know that they are being put under stress and they adapt and overcome.
Right. So it’s possible to develop muscles functionally w/ weights, provided we’re attentive.
[QUOTE=Dragonzbane76;972790]For one i never told you anything about myself. You presumed a lot about me from our conversation, which is understandable this is the interwebss… [/quote]
You guys change the facts as you go along, don’t you? This is your statement:
So pardon me for making assumptions in regards to your “knowledge” of the internals.
Sorry, Internals are what they are. There is no my definition or your definition! You either know about them and understand them to whatever level or you don’t!
I have no problem with you guys’ training methodology but I do have a problem with your pompous attitudes regarding TCMA methodologies that you are unfamiliar with. This puts off a lot of good posters who actually bother to train TCMAs and understand them more than the average cross trainer. Why? Because if any of the more unusual TCMA aspects are brought up then you have the “immoral majority” here “biting” their heads off.
I will say that I have no problem with what you guys practice and I respect your choices of MA. I know that whatever you guys practice will need your time and dedication. What I don’t respect is some of you pretending to know stuff that you have no clue about and on top of that a few go on to even criticize and ridicule people who know more than you.
The segment that I quoted above from your previous post implies, again, “I don’t know about this methodology, hence it does not exist”. Sanjuro is the same. Frost is the same. Lkfmdc is the same. Then everyone hides their cluelessness behind stupid posts that deal with everything but the actual subject matter.
Yet others have managed to discuss relevant points with me here. WHY?
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;972806]Now, that would be telling…[/quote]
Whoever told you is as clueless about where I live as you are about Chow Gar internal practices.LOL.
It is Chow Gar for sure. However,feel free to do what many Jack of all trades like yourself do by inventing your own style of Mantis and call it “Jaw” Gar. You can call yourself a great grand master, too. You can then go on and produce a series of world champions who use their jaws to talk crap about TCMA knowledge they don’t possess.
By the way, any new on answering my questions? Oh, I thought not! LOL
It would just be so easy to say that you are not familiar with this methodology and be done with it, but I know that your ego won’t let you. No problem. the discussion was “nice” while it lasted.:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=Hardwork108;972812]Whoever told you is as clueless about where I live as you are about Chow Gar internal practices.LOL.
It is Chow Gar for sure. However,feel free to do what many Jack of all trades like yourself do by inventing your own style of Mantis and call it “Jaw” Gar. You can call yourself a great grand master, too. You can then go on and produce a series of world champions who use their jaws to talk crap about TCMA knowledge they don’t possess.
By the way, any new on answering my questions? Oh, I thought not! LOL
It would just be so easy to say that you are not familiar with this methodology and be done with it, but I know that your ego won’t let you. No problem. the discussion was “nice” while it lasted.:rolleyes:[/QUOTE]
Are you coming on to me again??
Dude, seriously now.
You need to stop drink the water over there in Colombia.
I will say that I have no problem with what you guys practice and I respect your choices of MA. I know that whatever you guys practice will need your time and dedication. What I don’t respect is some of you pretending to know stuff that you have no clue about and on top of that a few go on to even criticize and ridicule people who know more than you.
The segment that I quoted above from your previous post implies, again, “I don’t know about this methodology, hence it does not exist”. Sanjuro is the same. Frost is the same. Lkfmdc is the same. Then everyone hides their cluelessness behind stupid posts that deal with everything but the actual subject matter.
Yet others have managed to discuss relevant points with me here. WHY?
what ever makes you happy. the street goes both ways is all i’m stating. don’t look down upon those that practice other MA’s. yes there are those that will criticize u but hell this is the internet it happens. once some MMA "meathead " says something to you, you automatically put everyone else that does that into your catagory of no knowledge, you have no concept type stuff.
with the list of names you stated there I would hazard to say that they probably forgot more about the TCMA than you ever learned.
I’m glad there are others here to discuss points with you. and there are just as many that would disagree with all your points.
[QUOTE=Xiao3 Meng4;972809]Did you guys talk about circuit building as part of it?
Right. So it’s possible to develop muscles functionally w/ weights, provided we’re attentive.[/QUOTE]
Taiji does not really lend itself to HIIT for obvious reasons, but the supplementary exercises do, we talked a bit about that.
There is general ST and then there is “sport specific” ST and the two are very distinct.
Functional strength is also general and specific, if you do NOT develop strength in a specific pathway, regardless of how strong you are in the general sense, you will not be stronger than someone who as that “task specififc” strength that you don’t, in that specific task.
EX:
A- can do a 500lbs deadlift, B- can’t.
B-can close a capt. of crush #3, A- can’t.
Who would you rather shake hands with?
Who would you rather have around if a book case fell on top of you?
i was looking at the qi jiguang 32 posture because a lot of taijiquan posture came from that. i was disappointed because there was no “internal” techniques. it changed my entire view of so called “internal” kung fu
[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;972866]
Functional strength is also general and specific, if you do NOT develop strength in a specific pathway, regardless of how strong you are in the general sense, you will not be stronger than someone who as that “task specififc” strength that you don’t, in that specific task.[/quote]
For a while now, I’ve been viewing this as a main difference between internal and external training starting points - although a competent curriculum should eventually take you through the opposite training as well.
EX:
A- can do a 500lbs deadlift, B- can’t.
B-can close a capt. of crush #3, A- can’t.
Who would you rather shake hands with?
Who would you rather have around if a book case fell on top of you?
The guy who knows most about leverage…
Sure, I understand your example. In a way, both A and B developed a specific skill. In this context, A’s got the needed skillset. I hesitate to say that A has a more general skill, though… I tend to agree, but there’s a lot to be said for having crazy grip in the real world too.
[QUOTE=Xiao3 Meng4;972885]For a while now, I’ve been viewing this as a main difference between internal and external training starting points - although a competent curriculum should eventually take you through the opposite training as well.
The guy who knows most about leverage…
Sure, I understand your example. In a way, both A and B developed a specific skill. In this context, A’s got the needed skillset. I hesitate to say that A has a more general skill, though… I tend to agree, but there’s a lot to be said for having crazy grip in the real world too.[/QUOTE]
Whether grip strength is more valuable than DL strength is irrelevant ( though I don;t know any DL’s that do NOT have great grip strength too, for obvious reasons).
The example was one of specificity.
If a person is not used to doing “A”, no matter how in shape they may be, compared to someone that does “A” reguarly, they won’t be as good period.
A marathon runner will Gas doing a grappling session just as easy as someone that can’t run 15 min.
Specificity is the key to fine motor skills.
To say that some “weight lifter” goes into a Taiji kwoon and is stiff and weak compared to the Sifu is like saying that Taiji make people weak because they can’t DL 300lbs.
Context.
To say that weight lifting is detrimental to IMA without understanding ANYTHING about the MANY types of ST is also pointless.
To say that some “weight lifter” goes into a Taiji kwoon and is stiff and weak compared to the Sifu is like saying that Taiji make people weak because they can’t DL 300lbs.
[/QUOTE]
yang luchan had to lift at least 200 ish pounds to join imperial guard, that was the minimum
