Disappointed with Wing Chun

[QUOTE=k gledhill;1161412]We develop skills WITH each other, not to fight each other. Role playing and skill enhancement rather than "what will you do if my tan does this ? Oh, I will control with my fook sao and be unbeatable and defeat you " :smiley:

Exactly what are the chances you will fight another VT guy outside :wink: Nobody punches with elbows in and down like us.[/QUOTE]

:slight_smile:

Yup, that’s why Chi-Sao competitions are a complete waste of time. It’s taking a skill building drill, putting it in a different context, and draw wrong conclusions from it. Want to compare fighting skill? Just frickin’ spar…

[QUOTE=Mutant;1161455]I…And we’re left with something thats more akin to an Anachronistic Society Convention with practitioners LARPing and wondering why the help they can’t apply their arts during moments of sobriety.[/QUOTE]

What I call Kung-Fu Trekkies… Enamored with silk suits, ancient authentic martial songs, secret butterfly palm techniques, incense sticks, martial art conventions, Bruce Lee posters, etc.
And when it boils down to rock’n roll… it just looks like $hitty Kick-boxing…

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1161486]Lots of overgeneralizations about wing chun going on in this thread and often others.
Wing chun is not a community and not consistent across lineages on stances, footwork.concepts, principles. training, contact work- you name it.

If someone is dis-satisfied with their wing chun- I am not- makes sense for them to do something else.

joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]

So you’re partially arguing that if his wc system doesn’t have it another one will? You don’t believe that the answer could lie wound the scope of the wc lens?

[QUOTE=Buddha_Fist;1161546]:slight_smile:

Yup, that’s why Chi-Sao competitions are a complete waste of time. It’s taking a skill building drill, putting it in a different context, and draw wrong conclusions from it. Want to compare fighting skill? Just frickin’ spar…[/QUOTE]

No thought of elbow development , just target practice …gotcha first moments, epic :smiley:

If you want your Wing Chun to prove itself to you, then use it for fighting. Not sissy sparring or chi sau, but stick in a mouth piece and go at it. Make a few rules. You can’t deliberately break a persons bones or kill him, and when someone hits the floor you go to a neutral corner. If it takes more than a few minutes to take him down, your stuff needs work.

[QUOTE=SavvySavage;1161549]So you’re partially arguing that if his wc system doesn’t have it another one will? You don’t believe that the answer could lie wound the scope of the wc lens?[/QUOTE]

I did not argue that at all. “the wc lens”??? WC has: No single lens.

joy chaudhuri

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1161486]Lots of overgeneralizations about wing chun going on in this thread and often others.
Wing chun is not a community and not consistent across lineages on stances, footwork.concepts, principles. training, contact work- you name it.

If someone is dis-satisfied with their wing chun- I am not- makes sense for them to do something else.

joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]

Absolutely.
My time in WC was great and I took what worked for me and don’t regret a moment of it.
That said it was NOT a good fit for me.

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1161486]Lots of overgeneralizations about wing chun going on in this thread and often others.
Wing chun is not a community and not consistent across lineages on stances, footwork.concepts, principles. training, contact work- you name it.[/QUOTE]

This is what I couldn’t understand when I first started posting here. And it wasn’t until much later that I realized that my own lineage just has a different approach to learning the system. Period. And we have differences within our own family, but these are celebrated more than criticized these days as we all become more aware of exactly how and what our Sigung taught.

I have heard many students complain about why they were not shown this or that, but when it comes down to it many of them left the system anyway in preference of a more sport orientated art. Nothing wrong with that. I done the same thing many moons ago when I left the Karate Dojo to join a Boxing gym because I thought the training wasn’t ‘real’ enough.

I have never once felt that with my Wing Chun though.

[QUOTE=nunchuckguy;1161294]After studying Wing Chun for a few years and looking at countless full contact “Wing Chun” fights, I am sorry to say I am quite disappointed with the modern time Wing Chun.

Have we already lost some of the most important elements of Wing Chun training of the past, when Wing Chun was a combative system effective for real fights?

Does Wing Chun only look good in drills and Chi Sao? What should Wing Chun look like in real fights?

We always hear stories of legendary Wing Chun masters like Ip Man, Wong Shun Leung, Duncan Leung and how they easily defeated various kinds of martial arts sifus. But if among millions of Wing Chun pilgrims around the world, only a handful of people really are able to fight properly with Wing Chun. What are the common and deep rooted misunderstandings that are hindering all of us?[/QUOTE]

This is a good question, VT in use can be as simple as a punching a guy in the head. Many guys have asked me to show them ‘how would I do something ?’ using VT, so I just punch them [controlled] in the face, whatever they do to stop me is my VT as I continue.

So what does VT look like in a fight ? it looks like a guy hitting and attacking a person.

What should VT be able to accomplish with that ‘punch’ is from hard training, hitting heavy bags, wall bags, kick bags. Learning what a solid punch does to your stance, balance, etc…

While sparring prepares you for RANDOM events, unlike drills, and chi-sao prepares us for random events, with little time to think and execute, or freeze and hesitate. Hitting a heavy bag gives us a ‘heavy punch’.

Sparring in a gym with resisting partners gives you clarity when facing a real situation outside. You gain a sense of vulnerability in an opponents guard, as they approach to you, ie hands down allows a direct open shot to face with this ‘punch’.

In a real situation you dont have the luxury of ‘corrections’, like a drill, you are going for a focused delivery and you might not have another chance. Distances and timing become crucial with small steps to manage your OWN timing, distance and issue force as you did on the heavy bags 100% with the same ‘punch’.

Hitting 100% on bags gives the punch ‘weight’ you feel a resisting object receive your force.

Drilling corrects errors, over swing if you miss, recovery of errors as you make them, stances, thoughtlessly. A lot of ‘fights’ only last as long as the one punch…ime anyway.

So if you work on a heavy bag, shadow box it, shove it so it swings back and forth at you. Learn to let it come and time your ‘punch’ accordingly, use angling to avoid its swing and momentum, as it tries to make a line of force at you. Its limited but 100% striking is essential.

Kicking a long MT bag is also a good idea, try to swing it and kick it so it stops dead as you kick it, learn to hit a MOVING bag, so it wont knock you backwards. When you kick a guy in a fight , he will ‘catch air’ because he isnt a MT bag attached to the ceiling. :wink:

A lot of VT is in the mind and how we approach combat, strategically and dynamically. So you wont see ‘it’, but ‘it’ is there , if you have put in the time and effort. Like an iceberg, what will do the damage is unseen beneath the surface. Heavy bag work pad striking, etc…

Kung fu is a skill attained through HARD WORK, not something you get by showing up and rolling arms a little and then do a form.

When you drill you need to be focusing on the details 100% always. If you slide and let yourself execute at 75% , in the street or gym you will erode like the banks of a dry river bed during a flash flood…gone !

I would [and still do] run 2-3 miles daily and take a wall bag with a bungee cord and strap it to a tree in a park, and do 500 punches with breaks for whatever, then another 500, and so on…set yourself a goal of ‘impact’ training.

Thanks guys, excellent discussions. I learned a lot.

I will continue to explore WC. Different sifus and different interpretations.

I checked out Alan Orr and Phil Redmond because someone mentioned them. I have to say I am very impressed. It looks much closer to what I’m looking for.

I know Alan got a set of instructional DVD. Does Phil offers something like that?

[QUOTE=nunchuckguy;1161294]After studying Wing Chun for a few years and looking at countless full contact “Wing Chun” fights, I am sorry to say I am quite disappointed with the modern time Wing Chun.[/QUOTE]

the key to wing chun

  1. Practice Daily
  2. Build your skill (Power, Strenght, Speed, Flexibility, timing, cooridation, accuracy)
  3. Chi sau develops sensitivity
  4. San Shou develops hand eye cooridation
  5. Sparring hard and soft develops skill in fighting with techniques

One thing in my system we always trained more so against Non-wing chun attacks. Be it high kicks, boxing punches, karate punches, or just straight up brawling or street fighting attacks. Once you get used to defending against any said attack. An then spar with people of other styles or no style at all ie a street fighter. Then you begin to gain experience with what works against certain types of people. Those who spar different people out side of your system have an advantage.

AS FOR YOUTUBE

Just like alot people have watered down wing chun…you tube also water downs good wing chun. You have a few videos of wing chun working against people. But alot of it has been removed or fail away over time. Its really hard to find a WC guy straight up winning against a skilled fighter. But its out there.

But as some have said not everyone uses WC for fighting. Only the young tend to be interested in fighting…older people do it because they love kung fu!

AS FOR YOUTUBE

Just like alot people have watered down wing chun…you tube also water downs good wing chun. You have a few videos of wing chun working against people. But alot of it has been removed or fail away over time. Its really hard to find a WC guy straight up winning against a skilled fighter. But its out there.

Very true wise yoshi, now show em the video of the people wrassling and using the VT headlock

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1161962]… spar with people of other styles or no style at all ie a street fighter. Then you begin to gain experience with what works against certain types of people. Those who spar different people out side of your system have an advantage.

But as some have said not everyone uses WC for fighting. Only the young tend to be interested in fighting…older people do it because they love kung fu![/QUOTE]

I actually agree with both both points above. (I guess it had to happen sooner or later).

What is the WC wrestling and headlock you speak of?

[QUOTE=Jubei1;1162272]AS FOR YOUTUBE

Just like alot people have watered down wing chun…you tube also water downs good wing chun. You have a few videos of wing chun working against people. But alot of it has been removed or fail away over time. Its really hard to find a WC guy straight up winning against a skilled fighter. But its out there.

Very true wise yoshi, now show em the video of the people wrassling and using the VT headlock[/QUOTE]

Thanks wow…we agree on something…wow…the earth is ending!

[QUOTE=Grumblegeezer;1162276]I actually agree with both both points above. (I guess it had to happen sooner or later).[/QUOTE]

Come on Yoshi, how quickly you forget one of your best post yet.

The youtube video you posted in your thread entitled “WC techniques in sparring.”

Oh by the way those WC headlocks, do you recommend a gable grip? :slight_smile:

[QUOTE=Jubei1;1162384]Come on Yoshi, how quickly you forget one of your best post yet.

The youtube video you posted in your thread entitled “WC techniques in sparring.”

Oh by the way those WC headlocks, do you recommend a gable grip? :)[/QUOTE]

please repost that video…i need to see it…are u feferring to neck grab from mook yan jong.

[QUOTE=Yoshiyahu;1162400]please repost that video…i need to see it…are u feferring to neck grab from mook yan jong.[/QUOTE]

huh? you need to see it?

uhhmm, you’re the one who posted it in the thread that you started. :confused:

[QUOTE=Jubei1;1162427]huh? you need to see it?

uhhmm, you’re the one who posted it in the thread that you started. :confused:[/QUOTE]

okay thanks never mind!

ne way its all good..

Forget it, yoshi is obviously to stupid to even remember his own posts, how can he be taken seriously. The Guy is a troll

[QUOTE=JPinAZ;1162447]Forget it, yoshi is obviously to stupid to even remember his own posts, how can he be taken seriously. The Guy is a troll[/QUOTE]

man im finna go back to my troll village and read from the troll manifesto to come up with some topics to write about!!!