[QUOTE=KPM;860422]Hey Kevin!
—You expected me to come up with all of this by just asking me what “IT” is?? :eek:
SLT is a break down of arm angles for free-fighting from a face off. IOW we arent trying to develop a tan sao for use as that shape alone like a block , its a psotion for training a line specific strike idea later , developed through dan chisao > chi-sao etc…dummy etc…all the same thinking.
—I agree. We are training lines and angles more than specific techniques.
acute ‘cutting lines’ from tight elbow training..
Why do boxers give us a hard time ? we are fighting with one arm at full capacity , while the other chase , sticks , does all the things to help the guy we are trying to pulverize.
—And that is one of the things that Chi Sao training helps up overcome. Both arms should be active and ready!
given
These are the starting points fro the elbow to travel along to the target. Coupled with rear pak sao/vusao, jut sao’ bong sao’s etc…as after thoughts to a punch being stopped or deflected…
—Ok. I follow you. The idea is training a line, not a specific technique.
ok
we develop the arms not to stick and feel entry but to strike and prep for contact force ,
—I would say its both…not either/or.
primarily to strike with alignmnet of a pole strike all force to the tip
the arms wrsits x our centerline slightly creating a natural ‘pass it to you’ partnership of arms [ours] that don’t open the line for counter entry
—Sure! That’s the whole point of maintaining forward pressure. 
[B]sorry me again, but your confusing with my lead hand striking in a freefight passes whatever to the now ‘taking its place AND covering my line attacking in’
NOT with a partner in forward pressure chi-sao thinking…[/B]
Many do a jumming punch but don’t do a tanning punch , because they are throwing a punch off line to clear a path for the rear hand…that clearing action should be done by both a punch and acute angle of the striking lead arm…attack leads the action, attack follows the action and so on and so forth…
—This is where your ideas get kind of hazzy for me. I can see the point that we are learning lines of movement and not a specific technique. But that line of movement can become a specific technique like a Tan or a punch. But its either one or the other. In the past you seemed to be saying it was both at the same time, which is what was confusing to me. The action may start as a punch and convert to a Tan if interrupted, but even then it is not both at the same time.
the tan elbow spreads the guys arm out side our ‘inner triangle of space’ tans go to form ther outside angle [either side depending which flank is attacked] the jum holds thew center as they swap…striking in altarnating along the flank..like mentioned we are talking a few moves to a strike WSL normally didnt use more than 3 .
The tan points like a gun and fire across abridged arm keeping the elbow low as it expands off our centerlines , striking forwards, the elbow acts like a pak…the following jumming force inward keeps the line shut ..
IF ! an attempt is made to defelct stop the lead we use actions to stay facing that attack [ ours] by adopting jut sao [ from blocked tanning punch] to a rear follow up…all done at the speed of light .
----I see what you are calling a “tanning punch” as cutting the opponent’s line from the inside outward. To me, that is the line that is being used in the SLT form. So I don’t see how it would then convert to a Jut Sao, since the Jut Sao moves inward…unless you huen around to the outside of his block first?
our lead tan or jum strike doent fight the other arm because it can treach or is unable to develop force, flanking attacking like knives isolates and weakens the guy to one knife against our 2.
if an arm stops a tanpunching arm [left outsde forearm v left punch or left arm position] we simply apply shocking force in the same position to JUT the arm down for the rear vusao to strike in…as chum kil [ only the tan with a jut is done to the wrist area not like an arm break :rolleyes:] in chum kil we jut our own arms and do a tan to get the elbow in to strike again..
remember tan is a punch in training its palm open , fighting you dont see a plam open unless you make it so.
bong sao’s ..they should be trained in chi-sao to natural shift objects left or right to our rear follow up strike , not trained to be followed by a lateral off line lop sao… we use lop to regain the bad use of a lifting up and down bong [ up & down bong is wrong]
—I agree with the idea that the lifting Bong is not a great application, though sometimes necessary. But I see the Lop Sao as more than just a recovery from a bad Bong. It can be used to move the opponent and break his base when done properly.
thats why lop is in bil gee not SLT…agreed. you stop my attack I twist you on your axis point with lop. head to floor I open you like a gate with your arm.
why you resort to kick boxing in sparring , your trying to use it facing square on, try it from the side to a punch that has been xed at the wrist from the sides, turn the bong so the arm is shifted to clear a shot ON ITS OWN , not using 2 hands to simply throw a 3 beat counter or 2 if your fast ; )
—That one’s kind of convulated. Not sure I follow you.
bong is like a boxers raised arm deflecting a punch at his head from under the punch, only we strive to knock it sideways so we can puch with the free hand …not tie ourselves up using 2 for 1 always …sloooow.
SLT is the basis for the angles to strike…elbows in , shifting the ‘facing’ working attack lines with chum kil, chum kil is like shooting people while they shoot back…dont be in front chasing bullets …maneuver to the opposite sides of the attempted shots. Avoid being in the path of two shots coming in move shift to isolate one side
—Good explanation for Chum Kiu! I like that analogy.
straight from PB firing a rifle in your stance shifting to avoid water in a pending water fight
We can only achieve this kind of attack if we dont seek to stick /feel/ chase…but to simply attack and allow the lead hand [ man sao] to tell us the next shot if it stopped , xed over under..etc…then the rear hand follow’s it…and the lead recovers the rear .
—I see what you’re saying here, but if the lead hand is going to “tell us the next shot” isn’t it because it was sticking and feeling the reaction from the opponent? I agree with not chasing hands. But a big part of the contact reflexes developed in Chi Sao involve sticking and feeling for just that brief moment it takes to get a read on what the opponent is doing.
the only reason we stop to feel is because they made us by interrupting the attack lines [ chi-sao kicks in unthinking to recover the attack not suddenly stop n chill on their arm ]…if I attack anyone longer than they attack me who has a better % ? ah ? again 
they found our arms not us find theirs we should be hrowing punches along a shifting chasing attacking flank available, even if its them just turning their lines wildly to avoid us.
Doing chi-sao in a constant facing feeling thinking is wrong , redundant . Its teaching you to seek contact to become ‘safe’ functional, controlling bs …your F$%#ing attacking someone not being safe !
—I agree. That’s doing Chi Sao without good forward pressure and without the partners challenging each other’s structure and position.
Doing dirty clinch work is a mystery to me ? why would a smaller person engage a larger stronger one front and center to fight each arm delivering flanking blows to YOU ?
—Maybe because he was unable to keep the other guy from moving in on him and coming to the clinch!? Maybe because the other guy didn’t stop HIM from moving in? I see the clinch range as a natural progression from Chi Sao if you haven’t knocked the guy down or out with a blow and he is still there as you move in.
You can use anything if it works for you, I have used it fighting guys who are ina standing scrum in bars fighting each other, I use the ‘force’ to shift them like a huge beach balloon out the exit.
you should be training to not be ther from a face off…if sh*t happens open up your bil gee bag of responses to recover the out side lines asap and keep delivering the blitz ..dont stop firing or turn away from the shot line coming at you while holding center.
—Right! Take his space and smash his face!
hows that ?
—Better! Thanks! :)[/QUOTE]
usually it takes one good timed smash to change a guys intent.
