Let’s be honest here. Will you pick up Taiji as your “primary” system if you are interested in combat?
If your answer is yes, why? If your answer is no, why?
chen free style push hands is a rough sport. i have competed in judo ,karate and jujutsu and push hands competitions, and the only time i got injured was doing a chen style moving push hands comp.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1248304]Let’s be honest here. Will you pick up Taiji as your “primary” system if you are interested in combat?
If your answer is yes, why? If your answer is no, why?[/QUOTE] My answer is no. I like the flow when it’s not too slow but would not want to spend the time required in perfecting the form sets to acquire the body-weapon techniques. My own practice is as direct as Muay Thai.
[QUOTE=wiz cool c;1248309]chen free style push hands is a rough sport. i have competed in judo ,karate and jujutsu and push hands competitions, and the only time i got injured was doing a chen style moving .
----------------------------------------------------------------------There are real Chen stylists and then there are wanabees. The top Chen stylists that have come out of Chen village are very very good. There is a Chen stylist in LA’s Monterrey park who has been challenged and did quite well.
On You tube you can see a Chen stylist easily handling a Sumo champion.
To say that Chen Taiji can be effective, we should ask what kind of “finish moves” will those Chen guys use against those MT guys?
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1248319]
On You tube you can see a Chen stylist easily handling a Sumo champion.[/QUOTE]
Then you should post it. I’ve never heard of a chen stylist winning a sumo tournament.
[QUOTE=pazman;1248324]Then you should post it. I’ve never heard of a chen stylist winning a sumo tournament.[/QUOTE]
I have never met any Chen Taiji guy on the wrestling mat in my life.
[QUOTE=pazman;1248324]Then you should post it. I’ve never heard of a chen stylist winning a sumo tournament.[/QUOTE]
Read again- I did not say anything about a sumo tournament. I referred to a chen stylist easily handling the huge sumo champ Akebono.
Check Youtube for “Akebono v taiji master”
Approximate call numbers:
http:www.youtube.com/watch?=NNlu _v WA-VWA
Thhe dash is under the v
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNlu_wA-VWA
Why would a Sumo guy want to play “fix step” push hand game with a Taiji guy? If those MT guys want to play “fix step” push hand game like this, the Chen guys may have a chance to win.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1248332]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNlu_wA-VWA
Why would a Sumo guy want to play “fix step” push hand game with a Taiji guy? If those MT guys want to play “fix step” push hand game like this, the Chen guys may have a chance to win. If you move your foot, you lose and I win.
Our feet are used to “move around” and not used to “stand still”.[/QUOTE]
The video deals with balancing skills.. Chen style and Sumo both involve mastery of balance-
when you are off balance- you are open to be struck, thrown or have bones broken. Top level Chen style is quite different from yang, wu etc. When you have mastery of touch and timing
any of the many Chen weapons can come into play depending on the competence of the practitioner. MT is not the only style that
has elbows, knees etc.
I hope that we can have a report on the matches. Individual competence is important besides style.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1248331]
Read again- I did not say anything about a sumo tournament. I referred to a chen stylist easily handling the huge sumo champ Akebono.
Check Youtube for “Akebono v taiji master”
[/QUOTE]
This clip is for entertainment. I understand that the master might have some talent, but do you believe that the taiji guy would stand a chance against Akebono in a sumo match?
The whole discussion will have to come back down to “What are those finish moves that Chen guys may use?”
If a Chen guy use:
- hook punch,
- elbow drop,
- roundhouse kick,
- flying knee,
- …
to knock out his MT opponent, what does that mean?
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1248335]The whole discussion will have to come back down to “What are those finish moves that Chen guys may use?”
If a Chen guy use:
- hook punch,
- elbow drop,
- roundhouse kick,
- flying knee,
- …
to knock out his MT opponent, what does that mean?[/QUOTE]
add it into the form
PROBLEM SOLVED LOL
[QUOTE=bawang;1248344]add it into the form
PROBLEM SOLVED LOL[/QUOTE]
Why we haven’t seen any Taiji form that have those moves be added in yet?
When I was young, I loved to tell my Karate friends that my TCMA had everything. When they did something unique that I didn’t have, I had that move added into my form next day.
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1248335]The whole discussion will have to come back down to “What are those finish moves that Chen guys may use?”
If a Chen guy use:
- hook punch,
- elbow drop,
- roundhouse kick,
- flying knee,
- …
to knock out his MT opponent, what does that mean?[/QUOTE]
So after foot sweep now we Chen stylists have to take your word that Chen style doesn’t have any finishing moves like hook, elbows, low roundhouse, knee,…
LOL
[QUOTE=xinyidizi;1248346]So after foot sweep now we Chen stylists have to take your word that Chen style doesn’t have any finishing moves like hook, elbows, low roundhouse, knee,…
LOL[/QUOTE]
I don’t draw conclusion. I only ask the question here.
If a Chen guy use:
- hook punch,
- elbow drop,
- roundhouse kick,
- flying knee,
- …
to knock out his MT opponent, what does that mean? If a Chen guy doesn’t use those tools, what other tools will he use?
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1248304]Let’s be honest here. Will you pick up Taiji as your “primary” system if you are interested in combat?
If your answer is yes, why? If your answer is no, why?[/QUOTE]
I am interested in seeing what happens…rather than hypothetical-s
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1248347]I don’t draw conclusion and I only ask the question here.
If a Chen guy use:
- hook punch,
- elbow drop,
- roundhouse kick,
- flying knee,
- …
to knock out his MT opponent, what does that mean? If a Chen guy doesn’t use those tools, what other tools will he use?[/QUOTE]
I respect you a lot and have learned interesting things from your posts and videos but when it comes to Chen taiji I think you are too biased though it’s clearly not a style you have practiced. There is much about Chen style that is not on YouTube. Forms in Chen style are very abstract ideas that are first trained for building the necessary body connections and the basic energy behind the techniques. After that there is tuishou and many drills for combat that should be practiced with a partner. Tuishou also gives you a random environment where you can even practice many striking techniques of which hook punch in probably one of the easiest. When we practice techniques that come directly from the form there are usually many ways to practice them as the form just gives you the raw energy. For example when you drill with a partner depending on the height, angle and speed it can be a foot sweep or gou and even a roundhouse kick. Also when you step forward an do it can easily be a flying knee if you wish to use it that way. I remember this one clearly because my teacher asked us to drill it that way and attack with the knee. Elbow techniques are also not that different from MT.
I don’t know what type of rules they want to use in this competition because those would determine how the fight would look like and certainly both of the styles would need to compromise and find a common ground so that they can compete but assuming that basic striking techniques are allowed chen style like many other styles has all the necessary tools not much different from MT.
There you have it. Should be a good show! 
[QUOTE=xinyidizi;1248360] assuming that basic striking techniques are allowed chen style like many other styles has all the necessary tools not much different from MT.[/QUOTE]
This is what we want to discuss, the offense tools. You can’t
- throw someone down without a good throwing technique.
- knock someone down without a good striking technique.
It’s the MT guy’s door guarding techniques (bread and butter) vs. the Chen guy’s door guarding techniques (bread and butter).