Whats your most respected style outside of your own?
I would have to say that Boxing is the best/dangerous next to my own style.
Their hand speed is ridiculous, along with knowing what it is like to be punched often. Thier footwork can get them by and obviously their striking ability is to be reckoned with.
Tai chi is obviously the best BUT in order to master it in order to use it in fight takes toooo long and by the time you do you are old and you no longer care about combat.
respected style…
I would have to say Xing Yi. Though, I did study it for awhile so may be I am a little bias. 
why ?
Why other than the fact that you studied it?
Well, I guess to start off I would have to say that it is a very powerful and direct system. The forms were very simple, at least the for the most part, unfortuantely there were many of them.
As simple as it all sounds, that is what I look for in a style/system. An art that offers health benefits, is simple, direct and powerful, and lack of flash.
One of the Gracie’s beat me very quickly and I admired how he did it so I would like to learn more from him.
Boxing has some good stuff, but I don’t think you can practice it all your life like some other MA.
It is educational to get punched silly and your partner doesn’t stop until you crumple to the floor.
I’m afraid I might lose some of my precious IQ points if I do it too often though.
Great training regimen for speed and power.
But PM has the grabs kicks and slams in between the punches.
I haven’t seen anything in another style to make me want to switch though.
They say Taiji is great, but most often I see his great skills mixed in with bogus theatrics which gives me doubt.
EG.
The famous Chen Hsiaowang came to Tainan to show his stuff.
To demonstrate his power 6 people line up in a straight line pushing on each others backs while the guy at the front of the line pushes on Chne’s chest.
Big deal!
Now if the tie a rope around his chest and let 6 people fail at pulling him then I am impressed.
But I did see a Taiji guy lie on the floor and put a small dumbell plate on his stomach and shoot it off landing by his knees.
I couldn’t do that with an object of any weight.
tai
tai chis principles alone make it a good style, while I agree with you that Tai chi guys have a lot of theatrics, there are the serious guys in the style,but they are too old to fight anymore…thats why I would only use it soley for longevity and health. Pm was made for fightin and thats it, no flash no dash just fightin, its teh only syle o kung fu I do and will do sides tai chi one day.
Yeah Boxing does have its brain cell prob, but still they are fighters to be reckoned with at all times 
I have heard a lot about xing i, I saw a guy do a demo with a crap load o power. I was impressed. It is also a bit like tai chi no? But with more…‘movement’ to it and more of a readilly identifiable commbat movements, hence it is easier to put into combat.
Chen
Tainan,
O.K, yeah that demo does sound pretty crap. Most Taiji demo’s are, fake jumping around and taking dives etc. But I know for a fact, Chen Xiaowang is a very tough guy who has smashed plenty of people in real fights. You should try going at it with him in grasping, locking, grappling and pushing. He has arms like pythons. I myself was very sceptical of him and rather unimpressed by what i at the time percieved as his arrogance. I gained my respect for him by trying him out and the two of us ended up going through an internal wall of a house and a very expensive stereo system. He is very tough and I would have lost the use of my left hand if I hadn’t picked him up and rammed him into the wall (which was a little dispespectful on my behalf but hey, I was young!). This guy was willing to let me go at it with him and I am at least 25 years his junior. I can say I hit him hard and hit me me harder. I respect that! Not only that he dislocated three of my brothers fingers and also dropped two of us from a hands on start.
Thats my take on Chen Xiaowang.
B.T
Brendan,
Thanks for your enlightening description of Chen Hsiaowang.
I’m happy to hear he has MA spirit.
Did you feel that he fought using Taiji principles as you understand them?
His student teaches Taiji right next to me.
I don’t think his best guy there could fight his way out of a paper bag.
100% emphasize beauty of forms.
It doesn’t bother me. But that helped to make me think that Chen couldn’t fight since what little I have seen of his students can’t fight.
Maybe he doesn’t realize that what his students do is a representation of how others, like me, perceive him.
But I wouldn’t go at it with a Taiji master with grappling and pushing, at least not him.
I think I would get suckered into his game.
I was at a Taiji class some years back when the teacher and all his students were challenged by an outsider. Something right out of the movies.
The outsider cleaned up.
After everyone was gone I went at it with Mantis punches and didn’t give him a chance to push.
I figured it would be hard to win at his game since he was a very strong guy.
Also, the Taiji guys used to beat me up in the park when I tried using only their stuff.
But he couldn’t stop or defend against a single punch and I felt a little embarrassed to be hitting an older guy.
So to this day I don’t see how Taiji, by itself helps against PM punches.
But I should add that in Tainan a lot of guys mix their Taiji with White Crane which has some hand stuff not unlike Wing Chun.
This totally changes the battle as it then becomes difficult to get a punch in.
I don’t know if you have seen their stuff.
Their push hands looks a little like Taiji, but fast and walking and jumping at the same time.
Probably my Shrfu’s favorite southern style.
Hi Tainan Mantis,
May I ask you how did the Gracie guy beat you. Specifically, I am wondering: Do you feel that you lost because unfamiliarity with his tactic? Or was he just more skillful? Did he take the fight to the ground? If he beat you on the ground, do you think you would fair better if you study how to defend against their takedowns?
I hope you don’t mind.
wm
everyone is going off topic now…but hey I got yo guys talking
details of the match
Hi WM,
The takedowns that he used I learned in PM as well as their counters so it wasn’t unfamiliarity of technique.
The ground control I knew except the Gi Chokes. Also what I had learned in PM.
Rolls didn’t talk a lot since he was still learning to use English.
After 3 falls I said ok let’s train.
Then the whole class was working on going from position A to position B.
It was the exact same move in #2 of PM Luohan Gong, the second Luohan called Tyrant Lifts the Tripod.
The other student, a sixth degree shredded Karate guy, was convinced I lost because of using an inferior style.
I can’t concede to that since I already was familiar with the techniques.
After the workout I asked Rolls about his training.
His dad, also named Rolls, you may remember he died in a plane crash some years back.
Anyway, his dad had a large school in Brasil when Rolls Jr was born.
So his first memories are nothing but the mat. He started when he was three.
Compare that to me starting when I was fifteen.
So three reasons I lost…
-His brain had better nerve wiring since he started much younger.
-My training at that time(since corrected) had to much training aspects that don’t directly help fighting.
Compare to PM originally having but 3 forms. Now most schools have 50 or more.
If the school has less than 20 forms it is considered few.
Better to just each the 3 original forms, or three favorites.
-It is easier to practice all out grappling and takedowns every class as compared to most PM techniques which more easily cause damage.
EG. In Judo class I can take body slams full power for most of the class.
But in PM I can’t Go-Lo Tsai my partner in his nose more than once unless we have safety equipment. And then I can only do it a few times.
So he could go all out on his takedown with out worry while I can’t. Maybe some can, but like my old Shrfu said, " Are you going to poke out his eyes to prove a point?"
Not to say that I could have won with an eyepoke…
Re: details of the match
Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
The ground control I knew except the Gi Chokes. Also what I had learned in PM.
what style of pm was it that taught that - I’d really love to see it.
[b]-It is easier to practice all out grappling and takedowns every class as compared to most PM techniques which more easily cause damage.
EG. In Judo class I can take body slams full power for most of the class.
But in PM I can’t Go-Lo Tsai my partner in his nose more than once unless we have safety equipment. And then I can only do it a few times.[/b]
can you not apply the principle behind it to make it safer? yes, in judo, I can ippon seionage you all day, but I can also turn your arm a different way and snap it in half during the throw, a la shuai chiao’s “rhino gazes at the moon” - there’s a safe version of the throw for training and competition. It’s the same principle, just a different variation.
he could go all out on his takedown with out worry while I can’t. Maybe some can, but like my old Shrfu said, " Are you going to poke out his eyes to prove a point?"
Not to say that I could have won with an eyepoke…
he modified his stuff too - he could have slammed you on your head. in the case of submissions, he can choke you unconscious or break limbs.
Re: Respected style outside
Originally posted by grifter721
Whats your most respected style outside of your own?
I would have to say that Boxing is the best/dangerous next to my own style.
Am I reading this wrong, or are you saying that your style is the most dangerous? you mean, in your eyes, right?
I respect no styles outside my own!!! Hahahahaha. 
Seriously, I have a healthy respect for most styles. In the end it is the person who makes the fighter, not the style.
if I ever learn another set of MA, it would have to be one from the 18 lohan …
Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
[B]
So to this day I don’t see how Taiji, by itself helps against PM punches.
[/B]
:rolleyes:
Re: Respected style outside
Originally posted by grifter721
Tai chi is obviously the best BUT in order to master it in order to use it in fight takes toooo long and by the time you do you are old and you no longer care about combat.
Obviously the best according to…?
elitist attitudes in ma are played out - or at least they should be. There is no most dangerous style. There is no best style.
Seven Star
Pm in My eyes is teh most aggressive/dangerous…In other words I dont feel it necessary to learn another are o fightin, sides thats not teh only reason I embarked on the Kung Fu journey.
In theory Tai chi is teh best ma/ seeing as ma evolved first as a health exc then as a fighting art, and tai chi incorporates teh power of teh body, ie chi, and they learn how to manipulate that energy. they learn teh energy sytem and how to manipulate others energy, now that is just facked. BUT as I said it takes too long to learn all of this so learning tai chi is like teh last thing to do if all you wanna do is fight. There are other reasons but sheet who want to write em all out.
What other style can you practice till teh end of your days? Muay Thai? Judo? Jusi jitsu? Kicboxing? and I am not talking out o my ass I know many Muay thi guys and they know that if you are serious at uay thai there is no way you can compete for very long/too taxing on teh body.
taiji etc
Hi again.
I know were off topic here but…
>Did you feel that he fought using Taiji principles as you >understand them?
Yes actually. Chen style has a lot of that in it. Besides that, the push (which has come up in several replies to this post), is certainly not the number one weapon in Taiji. It is part of, but not all of the system in action.
>His student teaches Taiji right next to me.
>I don’t think his best guy there could fight his way out of a >paper bag.
No doubt many of his students over the world are the same. He travels 8 months of the year basically teaching anyone and everyone ($$$), and I doubt there are many that can fight well using the Chen style. But dont underestimate the system, there certainly are tough Chen stylists around, especially in China. Chen himself though, and his close brothers can all do the do.
>100% emphasize beauty of forms.
Yes, I agree this is a worthless approach.
>It doesn’t bother me. But that helped to make me think that >Chen couldn’t fight since what little I have seen of his students >can’t fight.
As above.
>Maybe he doesn’t realize that what his students do is a >representation of how others, like me, perceive him.
More that he wouldnt care ($$$)…
>But I wouldn’t go at it with a Taiji master with grappling and >pushing, at least not him.
>I think I would get suckered into his game.
Well we tried it both ways and he was no problem with either. Either you can fight or you cant, and he can. Besides which I can use Taiji principles and Tanglang principles for fighting (Tanglang shares many of these and I practice both).
>So to this day I don’t see how Taiji, by itself helps against PM >punches.
I think perhaps thats because you have only crossed hands with no good Taiji boxers. Taiji is designed to deal with any kind of punches and delivers its own effectively as well.
At the end of the day, it all comes down to the individual anyone can make a good style look s.hit.
On topic again, I think Baji, Xinyi Liuhe, Chuojiao Fanzi and Tongbi (off the top of the head) are also powerful fighting styles. Of course there are many, many more.
B.T