Hi Sevenstar,
I studied PM with Shr Zhengzhong.
He did a variety of PM styles.
There are takedowns in the style which you see in other styles.
What happened on the ground with Rolls and I was very short, I didn’t have the skill to counter his technique. I just happened to have learned those in class before.
So I’m thinking,“Hey I learned that too.”
We do apply some principle of movement to make techniques and punches safer.
And I know that the nice polite throw can be an evil and ugly throw.
About Taiji, it is just based on what I have seen, maybe not enough.
In push hands class they push hands, maybe add throws, but I haven’t seen Taiji people working off punches.
Not to say it doesn’t happen.
Originally posted by grifter721
[B]Pm in My eyes is teh most aggressive/dangerous…In other words I dont feel it necessary to learn another are o fightin, sides thats not teh only reason I embarked on the Kung Fu journey.
In theory Tai chi is teh best ma/ seeing as ma evolved first as a health exc then as a fighting art, and tai chi incorporates teh power of teh body, ie chi, and they learn how to manipulate that energy. they learn teh energy sytem and how to manipulate others energy, now that is just facked.[/b]
judo and shuai chiao both teach energy manipulation, as well as other internal styles. several other external systems do also. I am really (seriously) interested in the ground control you learned in PM though - I’ve never seen such in kung fu. are there any links I can see?
What other style can you practice till teh end of your days? Muay Thai? Judo? Jusi jitsu? Kicboxing? and I am not talking out o my ass I know many Muay thi guys and they know that if you are serious at uay thai there is no way you can compete for very long/too taxing on teh body.
you don’t have to compete to train in it. My judo coach ( a three time mational champ) is 73. he started training when he was in his late 30’s. you can definiitely do judo and bjj for life. As far as kickboxing, I know someone who competed in a smoker for his 50th b-day. he spars with younger guys on a regular basis. There’s a thai gym in denmark (dunno the name) that Royce sent one of our guys to to teach bjj. The coach of that gym and a few other guys came to our school recently - the coach is in his 40s and can still hang with the young guys.
Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
About Taiji, it is just based on what I have seen, maybe not enough.
In push hands class they push hands, maybe add throws, but I haven’t seen Taiji people working off punches.
Not to say it doesn’t happen.
William CC Chen’s son Max is vicious in san shou. He’s only trained in chen tai chi, as far as I know. And shooter has tc guys that compete in mma competitions.
I think William CC Chen’s son is trained in Cheng Man Ching taiji not Chen style. But that doesn’t really matter.
Most wushu-fied taiji probably emphaize a lot on the beauty of the forms. But there is a difference when a good teacher corrects the student’s form to look pretty or to adjust the student’s aligntment and structure so that the student can become more relaxed.
I don’t really know any good taiji guys living in Taiwan right now except for maybe Adam Hsu. But I really haven’t heard from reliable people or met him myself to see if he’s actually good as he says he is.
Join a Taebo or Krav Maga class and check out the a$$! Hella b-itches!!! I’m in Texas so I bought a handgun for self defense and got a permit. For a good time and a good aerobic workout do things where chicks are rampant. Do you know how h o rny bee-yotches get when you are the only sweaty dude around?! DizAMN!!! Get some!
Matsumura Seito Shorin Ryu has been good to me… BJJ is good too, but like Muay Thai it destroys your body. That is the truth. I don’t care what folks think. I use empiricism and modern medicine as my sources. Dont’ look at the Gracies (they gots Gracie genes), look at Mark Kerr. Broke. No man is meant to be regularly twisted, slammed, choked unconscious (or near it) and beat upon like a slab of beef. The human body will get you back when you’re old. Who says people don’t do these harmful things b/c they secretly want to punish themselves and kill themselves faster? That’s my theory at least, hahaha!
PM ain’t sh it. Tai Chi is much better, depending upon who teaches it. Don’t be an impatient martial artist. Be a smart and long-term minded one. Get a good teacher AND style (yes some styles are better at teaching fighting than others) then stick to it. Get to the advanced level, and if you want to supplement your training, increase your range(s), then check out other systems when you have a solid base. You can also be the consumate journeyman, like Bruce was, hit the weights and cross-train and learn to defend yourself while you are fast and strong. Most grapplers won’t be “Judo” Gene LaBell when they get 60+. They will be “Arthritic” Arthur Grapplin. 'Nawmean? Most western strikers (boxers) won’t be Cheng ManChing, Sokon Matsumura or Morio Higaonna. They will have the Parkinsonian talent of Muhammmad Ali. All that knowledge and skill, but a tore up body and mind (same thing) that can’t apply it.
Get sporty you Sport Billy types. Get good health coverage now. Dowutchyalike… It don’t concern me. I’ll live to 120 minimum and I’ll be kicking some but-tocks, heheheheh!
I think this is the first time I disagree with you, man. Like I said, my judo coach is 73 - I know for a fact it can be done into old age. you only have to train right. you’re not gonna be taking full force throws at that age, but you can definitely roll.
Taijiquan is a GREAT combat style provided you actually apply the techniques you learn in the sets.
For example, I’ve got several moves for “Form the Ball”. Lately, I’ve been focusing on using it as a takedown.
EVERY combative style has something to make me afraid to fight it.
So I have a lot of respect for anyone who does any form of combative martial art. Even some of the schools that people here trash have plenty enough martial applications to hurt anyone IF used properly.
It’s just a matter of matching up the right practitioner to the right venue.
Originally posted by SevenStar I think this is the first time I disagree with you, man. Like I said, my judo coach is 73 - I know for a fact it can be done into old age. you only have to train right. you’re not gonna be taking full force throws at that age, but you can definitely roll.
Hey we can’t agree about everything, bruh’! I didn’t say everyone that grappled or did full contact stuff would be crippled. I just said that the chances were most folks don’t have the genetics to endure continuous punishment. Your sensei probably trained smart yet hard. He’s probably just innately resilient. I know for a fact that many BJJ guys and Thai Boxers are broke up like football players by the time they are in their late 30s.
The old school Judo cats were into punishing themselves as were many original karate guys. Some guys go all out, and train TOO hard. I know of some Shorinkan bad-asse s who needed a complete hip replacemnet by the time they were 45! That’s from wear and tear (from hard sparring), too much stressing and forcing your stretches, and too many high kicks! So bad training includes “traditional” systems also.
To try and explain the reality of the world to someone who only understands and lives in his/her reality, is impossible. I can say that the orig. MP, 7 (“G”) Star, and Rogue are 3 of the folks that I respect on this board. I may not agree with them totally sometimes, but they are diplomatic (something I lack) and very astute. Oh yeah, Ryu is included too, even if he teaches JKD (j/k of course)!
I still respect and like you, even if we disagree Sev’. Peace…
and you REALLY felt that was necessary to say? Ah well. If it makes you feel better, I mod the southern forum and do look at the NPM forum from time to time… If I woulda seen this thread there, I still woulda replied. it’s a DISCUSSION forum…
I just said that the chances were most folks don’t have the genetics to endure continuous punishment.
Sadly for me I have those genetics. For the longest time I could train my a$$ off, but now I’m not mending like I used to. My mom recently had a knee replacement and while I marvel at what medical science accomplished I’m in no hurry to end up needing the procedure.
Wrong. Wrong diddly wrong wrong. Dude rode into town on a horse called ignorance
I don’t know why, but this made me laugh my ass off. I completely agree with you about the boxing thing scotty. You may learn all the techniques in a very short time, but it could be a very long while before your ready for the title fight.
Originally posted by rogue
[B] Sadly for me I have those genetics. For the longest time I could train my a$$ off, but now I’m not mending like I used to. My mom recently had a knee replacement and while I marvel at what medical science accomplished I’m in no hurry to end up needing the procedure.
'MegaPoint how’s med school going? [/B]
You seem like a cat that’s wid’ it. Be good to your mind-body “weapon”. You deserve that. Intelligent/real warriors (and people) are few and far between.
I’m almost finished with my fourth year. I’ll be going into PMNR (Physical Medicine and Rehab). My internship starts in August. Thanks for asking, and keep striving to be you.
When are we gonna see you in a Hollywood MA flick? :)Represent… Peace, “7od”!
I don’t know why, but this made me laugh my ass off. I completely agree with you about the boxing thing scotty. You may learn all the techniques in a very short time, but it could be a very long while before your ready for the title fight. [/B]
I don’t think we’re talking about title fights though… take a guy and train him in boxing for 6 months. Do the same with another guy, but train him in TMA. After 6 months, let them fight. In several TMA schools, it may be three to four months before you do any fighting at all - maybe longer. Maybe the style doesn’t fight at all. In boxing, they will start sparring in about 4 weeks. even if he’s not a GOOD boxer, he’s got months of experience under his belt that the other guy doesn’t have.
You make a very valid point. However, If a tai chi practitioner did start sparring early on(as I recommend they do), I believe they could use the few techniques they know effectively. They would not have the full range of techs available in the style, but what he does have is effective.
I have both boxed and done tai chi, and both have a lot to offer. Boxing is easy to pick up and starts you sparring extremely quick. Tai chi has a wide range of different techs to offer the practitioner. It’s true most tma schools don’t get sparring soon, if ever. In this case I recommend that people spar outside of the school.