Normally everywhere I see, Taiji is practiced in a slow forms, even during two man push hands drills. But there are Taiji Sanshou fighters out there, so Im wondering when they fight, especially against someone of another style, do they still restrict themselves to using slow movements with may be a few fast punches? Or the does fighter does a 180 and start fighting fast? What a does real Taiji tournament fights look like?
Stickyhands.
There are a lot of different training methods out there, most of the people will never do those.
One of the greatest ones, IMHO, is “Pole shaking”.
You go to my class and most of what you see is forms, basics and Tui shou.
If you are lucky you get invited to the training sesssion in the evening at another location and there you will be taught other things.
Yesterday we did punching drills, not something you see commonly in a TCC Class.
Form training generally happens at multiple speeds.
Also often the form taught to a beginner is different from the form to an advanced student.
Sifu sez there are 5 levels to each of our form.
I have had only glimpses of the differences so far. 
Cheers.
You mean, likes this?
I think you have it wrong with taichi and sanshou.
do they still restrict themselves to using slow movements with may be a few fast punches? Or the does fighter does a 180 and start fighting fast? What a does real Taiji tournament fights look like?
I went to a Wushu Gala .. so they just showed the best of the best, doing their thing, but it wasn’t a tournament.
The Tai Chi stuff was an Asian woman, doing the long form .. she was last years world-champion or something like that. I really didn’t enjoy watching her do that, I’d rather do it myself 
Then the sanshou part, you have this a little twisted.
I can only tell you what I know, about my training. We train 1 hour ‘Tai Chi’, which means warmup-form-new moves for the form-self defence applications. And then we do one hour sport fighting, aka Sanda aka Sanshou. This is in my style not a separate art, it is supposed to be given with the Tai Chi practice .. it’s a student from dan Docherty that teaches me, so if you read something about Dan, you know he states that Tai Chi training ain’t complete without Sanshou in it.
So we do one hour sanshou, let me assure you it’s a lot different from the first hour of Tai Chi, most Tai Chi classes don’t teach the Sanshou part simply because it’s so hard, and well, most people think Tai Chi and they think ‘Health’. So classes get filled with older people who only do it for their health, thus sanshou is not being thaught.
Over at our class, it’s stated clearly the first training you get there that we also do the sport fighting, since it’s so friggin fun, and very handy imho.
So what it is is, you get a lot of protection. And then the most intense hour of my week begins First (since I’m still a beginner) I have to do punches over and over and over, every possible punch, to make sure I don’t expose myself when I try to hit the target etc… cause mistakes sticking your head forward when punching could get you kocked out. Then I do the low kicks, still no high kicks, since I simply can’t get my leg that high just yet. And I also don’t do throws yet, at least not in sanshou, I do throws in the first hour, for the self defence part.
The throwing part comes later on, since right now they’re focusing on me to get good at punching, kicking, weight shifting, moving.
So then what the others do (they are both Belgian Champions atm, in their weight class, so they’re rather good :p). They have one hour, like me. They set a timer, and once in a while it beeps and they take a short break. But for the rest, these guys fight, fight, fight ! It’s amazing to watch it, it’s like a muah thai fight, only a lot more cool to watch 
But that’s probably because I can see it live, instead of on Eurosport =) You have to think of Sanshou as a muah thai fight .. So sanshou is absolutely NOT slow.
I never said Sanshou is slow, I asked what would it be like if Taiji methods were applied in Sanshou? -_-. Again, it seems like different variation of training, where Sanshou fighting doesnt seem anything like Taiji. Ive see Sanshou fights propagated through different MA styles, but I never seen what it would be like if Taiji moves were utilized. Since mostly in Taiji, it’s flowery movements and traps and push hands, Im still puzzled where exactly the great ultimate fist come in, or how would one use the Taiji fist in the Sanshou. And most importantly, is Taiji qi also used in Sanshou? Does suddenly Taiji flowery movements get fast as hell?
Stickyhands.
Like with so many of your posts and question you miss the point completely.
Tai Chi is a principle based art and not technique based.
What you see of TJQ/TCC as an outsider is not even the tip of the Iceberg.
Your flowery movements aren’t that flowery in execution if you knew their applications.
First before we continue this discussion what do you REALLY know about the TJQ/TCC training methods, Weapons and so on.
My guess is next to nothing but you are trying in vain to troll this board for some time now.
If knew even knew the basics you would know that San Shou is an integral part of good training.
Cheers.
do you even know why it’s practiced slow? It’s slow because we have to pay attention to every little detail from the beginning. Not because it’s suppose to be relaxing and unstressful. We have to make sure our alignment is correct. We have to make sure our body is coordiniated when moving. We have to make sure that we’re actually relaxed everywhere. We have to make sure our intent is good. And so on. But as your practice a lot and get corrected a lot, your body would get used to the ‘correct way of moving.’ So you can move a bit faster and faster. That’s when you can do the forms or whatever at ‘normal’ speeds. Like how some masters can put fajing to every move of the form and still hold the principles.
I’m sure when the masters practice the forms themselves they go through it fast. Or faster than they teach the students. Also, I don’t find taiji to be flowery at all. Well, except when wushu guys do it.
Originally posted by Laughing Cow
[B]Stickyhands.
Like with so many of your posts and question you miss the point completely.
Tai Chi is a principle based art and not technique based.
What you see of TJQ/TCC as an outsider is not even the tip of the Iceberg.
Your flowery movements aren’t that flowery in execution if you knew their applications.
First before we continue this discussion what do you REALLY know about the TJQ/TCC training methods, Weapons and so on.
My guess is next to nothing but you are trying in vain to troll this board for some time now.
If knew even knew the basics you would know that San Shou is an integral part of good training.
Cheers. [/B]
Dont get offended, Im only asking what I’ve seen so far. Dont take it as insult if Im one of those inquistive instigator and outside observer, I dont like soak in all the hype at first hand, know what I mean? But it’s nice to see you care to reply to all of my trollings. Otherwise how would I have any fans? lol. It’s just that, oh I dunno, all the impressive stuff about Taiji I hear, but still when I actually do show up in one of those schools, all I see is mostly old overweight people with practially no martial intent, and I get puzzled, may be where you train, it must be a bliss, but living here makes me wonder. You have a good day.
Stickyhands.
Maybe it is the wording of your posts that gets me.
BTW, the good TJQ/TCC Instructors are out there, just harder to find.
Ones that train students for competitions are even rarer.
Let people here know where you are and maybe one is close to you.
I would have never started under my current Sifu unless a guy halfway across the globe told me how to get in touch with him.
In the meantime I learned who the good and not so good Instructors are over here.
Many are in the “not so good” category, but the few good ones are there.
Most of the current Students travel often for hours to attend his class and been with him for many years.
Plus, I get to train with the current national Champion too.
Funny thing is that everybody that is serious into TJQ/TCC knows about him and his students, even though he don’t advertise and generally keeps a low profile.
Find a Sifu like this and you will see a different TJQ/TCC, at the same time you will also see a different set of students.
The same could be said for nearly every other activity out there.
Cheers.
Then have you ever heard of Mr. Yan Gaofei of Chen Taichi? He’s a Junior Executive Council Members of American Chen Taichi - www.americanchentaichi.com
He’s website is www.yangaofei.com and www.flchentaichi.com, or www.floridataichi.com
> … do they still restrict themselves to using slow movements with may be a few fast
> punches? Or the does fighter does a 180 and start fighting fast?
…
> Does suddenly Taiji flowery movements get fast as hell?
It’s really very simple…
We do the forms and some of the pushing hand drills slow because that way we can better learn certain things.
In self defence or competition you then apply what you have learnt.
Self defence or application training is not just the form done “fast as hell” but rather the principles found in the form (and in other part of tai chi practice) applied to the current self defense situation.
As to how fast the applications will be it of course depends on the situation, but you certainly don’t fight in slowmotion…
Originally posted by StickyHands
Then have you ever heard of Mr. Yan Gaofei of Chen Taichi?
I have heard of him, but he is of a different lineage to the Chen TJQ style that I am studying.
I don’t know how his skill compares to other Chen stylists. His lineage sounds ok and he lists an impressive number of Chen Teachers.
Cheers.
i heard of Yan. In fact, went to several seminars with him. he’s really good.
StickyHands, keep asking the kinds of questions you’re asking here. It makes for some interesting reading.
I’ll tell you this; Tai Chi players all believe their training is hard-core. That’s true only in degrees of hard-core. You read a lot these days about how this or that is done in competition, but you never see any of the Tai Chi people who theorize on those things step up and put it to the test.
Also, everyone’s teacher is the best and ‘has the goods’ regardless of the fact that everyone says 90+% of all TCC isn’t the real deal - Something just doesn’t add up! 
When it comes to understanding how Tai Chi Chuan works under pressure, everyone’s right and everyone else is wrong. 
LOL! No comment! as ripat would say “…” haha,
Originally posted by Laughing Cow
[B]
I have heard of him, but he is of a different lineage to the Chen TJQ style that I am studying.
I don’t know how his skill compares to other Chen stylists. His lineage sounds ok and he lists an impressive number of Chen Teachers.
Cheers. [/B]
So what is your lineage? By the way, your cow looks like it’s not laughing, but as if it’s about to die, someone is about slaughter him. lol
Taiji is becoming more and more popular, it’s not veiled anymore, but in my opinion, compared to all the other major arts, the martial aspects of it is. I think it needs more exposure to the tournament fighting world. I know I know many people disagree it’s not the principle of Taiji, but still, it’s one branch of Taiji. I guess Id be content if I eversaw a video of Taiji in a real fight or tournament, but cant find it anywhere other than push hands drills.
Stickyhands.
My Chen lineage differs as I study Small Frame and not Large Frame.
Cheers.
Shooter.
I would never say that my Sifu is the best.
He is just good at what he does, I have been to BOTH good and bad TJQ schools and know the difference.
BTW, some of those hardcore fighting TJQ schools I saw, IMO, didn’t practice TJQ anymore as winning and being competetive became more important than the TJQ principles.
Cheers.
Ya but I think he meant even if they are hardcore to a degree, in the long run most of them dont show up to demonstrate their hardcoreness. I think in that sense most Taiji fighters are following the Taiji principles of not being so competitive. But then again, an outsider like me desires just to see what this test of abilties would look like. Im not asking for a full on hardcore UFC match.
sticky hands.
judging by the name you have more expertise in wing chun. well what some of the people here have been saying should really be applied to everything, start off slow and you can do it fast, but only train fast and the world flies by. i see way too many wing chun people who still think wing chun is an ‘external style’ just becuase no one calls it ‘internal’ to me the distinct is a personal one, that is, karate can be internal, slow and done ‘correctly’.
when i see people doing things slow, slower ahhhhh slllloooooowwwww i see quality. its not all in thsi of course, but its not flashy, it doesnt just sell tshirts.
so if you do do wing chun, try siu lim tao for 45 mins at a time, and imagine yourself as the observer watching and asking the same intelligent questions about how this can be quality
yes good point. but doing fast or slow is irrelevant, times waits for no one really, so in the end, time does go fast. just because you practice slow, time wont slow down, it’s a bad analogy. lol. but i see what you mean, one can learn more and get the sensitivity down in a much more fluid and flexible manner. eitherway, i never said fast has is all advantages, neither will i say doing it slow also has all disadvantages, but the view of the perception varies. the relevancy is what would taiji be like in sanshou, anyone has any vidclips?