Chan is not a philosophy and Damo's students doesnt have to eat curry.

[B]
note:

seriously, China is in a survival mode from 1830 up to decades ago. we shouldnt blame the past ancestors who might miss lead us from some of thier story. We are in a great peacefull time where research and deep search is possible and information is easy to grasp. I must say this because it is not fair for the ancestors if we use today’s standard to rate thier understanding in Chan. They dont have time but has to run for survival, while we can sit in standford university library with aconditioning drinking coca cola reading all about Chan and call up some Chan patriach with Cell phones to conform things. I like to make jokes but in all means we need to respect all those from different lineages and style who make thier best effort to passed the art to us who live in a very bad era. without them there is no us.[/B]

People might say, oh no, not chan again.

You know, Chan has been post alots here and used in the CMA as a charm to ward-off anything they want. But, take a good look at the so Called Chan. it is not Chan at all.

OK, So what is Chan?

simple, Chan is a teaching of a methodology for PRACTICE to attain the non-dual state or Samadhi or proper -Stillness or if you want to call it free of attach awareness or awareness without identify it as anything but capable to identify it as everything if needed.

There are three stage in the training until the state of Aware but not identified become the by default.

Thus, it said,
first one sees mountain is mountain and river is river.
second one sees mountain is not mountain and river is not river.
Then, finally, mountian is mountain and river is river.

Yup. That is Chan.

So, what does it means about that non-dual,… awareness without identify it as anything?

USing an example in WCK.
Say, when one is "listening " in chi sau. But, one doesnt commit to use any technics yet. That is the simplified or very general or surface way of describing the awareness without identify it as anything state.

Using an example in Spiral Dynamic.
Say, when one is "aware"in daily living. But, one doesnt identify one as any memes or any of the 8 levels of conciousness yet.

So, Chan teaching is about how to attain the state where one doesnt by default or habitually fall into any identify. Chan training is about how to practice a certain meditation to realized the samadhi or the proper stillness state in daily living.

So, what is the big deal about this Chan stuffs in daily living? The big deal or the little deal is one has clear choice of what one wants instead of getting spiral into and trap or one can know all memes or types of conciousness but not by default or habitually stuck into one.

So, what is the big deal about this Chan Stuff interm of WCK practice? The big deal or the small deal is one has a clear choice of what technics one is going to use instead of become a programmed by default habit where others can read one’s pattern. It is about mastering changes.

Chan was written in different Wing CHun Kuen Kuit even from LJ. That is the way how the ancestors record the theory of training in the AWARENESS platform. ( notice, it doesnt tell about any single technics but pure Awareness platform) and the Chi Sau is an implementation of this theory. ----- Listen and Dont think.

Why? because when one think. one starts with identify a conciousness a memes, a subjective experience. There one spiral into a habit, a program. and the life-spand of that latching into the spiral,( ie falling in love ) has to do with how fast/slow one can release one from the identity or shift away to different identity. Time is non linear here it is no longer mechanical time.

It is very strange to see the teaching of Chan which is the methodology to liberate or free from fix identify interpreted into as philosophy, into ten thousand names of hands or bridges… or ten thousand sets…

Obviously, someone doesnt understant what Chan is about at all. Not to mention have the training of Chan to experience what is what.

You know why the Zen monk asked " how do you look like before your parents was born?" that is trying to break your habit of identity and break the habitual reaction.

You know why the Zen monk said " there is not a thing, how does it collect dust?" that is trying to communicate the awareness or the samadhi or the proper stillness is always clear and clean and free.

Since I am not the Buddha or the Chan Patriach. The above is my view from my Memes :smiley: take it if it helps you leave it to garbage if it doesnt help.

For those who link Chan to the eight proper path… well, check it out, if you cant “see” your memes or type of conciousness as in the spiral dynamics how do you change it?

Nice logical thoughts fly through the mind doesnt control the action. The memes does. So, one needs Chan practice to “Know”. hahahaha

" how do you look like before your parents was born?" hehehe
Dont use your habitual conciousness to reply. For that habitual is the one tailor your life or your reaction. Comeone, use something different. You have a choice. :smiley:

But then, hahaha all what I wrote up here is just an Emulation of my Memes or conciousness. This is still not the real thing. it is just the first state, mountain is mountain and river is river of understanding with our conciousness. Not real attainment of that non attached of identity awareness. I am just a parrot copying someone’s teaching. :slight_smile:

Dont expect I am all correct too I am not the Buddha and not a Chan Monk. you have the same AWERENESS as me. So check it out, in Gym, in meditation, while chi sau, while sparing (Ernie will love this ) , while in shower… everywhere you are it… ( but beware when you are AWARE you will not get involve. So dont do it when you have a dinner date or your spouse is going to blame me on your NOT CARING!) …

A myth in the Shao lin or CMA is that. Why the heck those story keep Identify the Shao Lin Top Chan monks as ANTI-QING, there the five elderly stories…etc ? where the teaching and practice of of Damo of Shao Lin in the first hand, Chan is about hey let go one identity. instead of "you must eat curry like me. "

Beats me. and you might know the reason why. I dont know. :smiley:

sincerely appology to those who dont like this post. But, may be you want to look at Chan differently?


note:
about memes or different level of conciousness models and spiral dynamics
www.chooseyourlife.com/ml/docs/SpiralDynamics.htm

hendrik, I had a little difficulty readin your post because i felt it lacked cohesiveness and I am wondering what the point was?

Are you pro chan practice tied into martial arts practice?

Or are you con?

If you are for it why? What do you think it brings to the practitioner to study buddhism and practice Chan?

If you are against it, why? What do you think it takes away from martial practice or daily living?

cheers

Hi Kung Lek,

Living in Now,
Dont think and just read :smiley:

Let the meaning comes to you if it is any :smiley:

but I like curry…

lemon curry? :wink:

i thought curry was an indian spice? it smells good but i dont think i would want to smell like curry.

Re: Chan is not a philosophy and Damo’s students doesnt have to eat curry.

Originally posted by Hendrik
[B][B]
note:

seriously, China is in a survival mode from 1830 up to decades ago. we shouldnt blame the past ancestors who might miss lead us from some of thier story. OK, So what is Chan?

simple, Chan is Thus, it said,
Yup. That is Chan.
USing an example in WCK.
Say, when one is "listening " in chi sau. Using an example in Spiral Dynamic.
Say, when one is "aware"in daily living. It is about mastering changes.Obviously, someone doesnt understant what Chan is about at all. Not to mention have the training of Chan to experience what is what. sincerely appology to those who dont like this post. But, may be you want to look at Chan differently?

[/B]

I hope you brought some tissues for that little masturbation session.

Re: Re: Chan is not a philosophy and Damo’s students doesnt have to eat curry.

Originally posted by unkokusai
I hope you brought some tissues for that little masturbation session.

who is the one who post the above?

Re: but I like curry…

Originally posted by GeneChing
lemon curry? :wink:

Curry in Curry Village Yosemiti is great too. :smiley:

Re: Re: Re: Chan is not a philosophy and Damo’s students doesnt have to eat curry.

Originally posted by Hendrik
who is the one who post the above?

unkokusai,

“some tissues”

I agree:cool: …you won’t find any fundamental problem for saying that:D :smiley: :smiley: :wink:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Chan is not a philosophy and Damo’s students doesnt have to eat curry.

Originally posted by Rhat
[B]unkokusai,

“some tissues”

I agree:cool: …you won’t find any fundamental problem for saying that:D :smiley: :smiley: :wink: [/B]

When Damo went to the Cave in Shao Lin to meditate.

is it because he bring some tissues,

or is it because he fed up with the stupid Liang Emperor who knows nothing about Buddhism but building lots of temple, having ton’s of cocubines, and thinking everyone is like him — always tissuing? :smiley:

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Chan is not a philosophy and Damo’s students doesnt have to eat c

Originally posted by Hendrik
[B]When Damo went to the Cave in Shao Lin to meditate.

is it because he bring some tissues,

or is it because he fed up with the stupid Liang Emperor who knows nothing about Buddhism but building lots of temple, having ton’s of cocubines, and thinking everyone is like him — always tissuing? :smiley: [/B]

I hope you brought some tissues for that little masturbation session.(unkokusai)

Seeing one drop of water can be seeing all water.:wink: some more tissues:o

more Emperor Liang. lots of Emperor Liang… No wander Damo went to Shao Lin Cave. hahahah :smiley:

What is Chan for those who study Shao Lin kung Fu?
What is your view?

Chan is a search for reality.

Originally posted by Kung Lek
Chan is a search for reality.

obviously this is an interesting subject.
ok to describe in more detail how you think it is done and what is the reality?

Hope we dont side track into building a Klenex tissue factory beside Shao Lin with Chan trademark. due to our ego identification spiral down process :smiley:

A stable mind leads to better practice, which in turn can lead to samadhi. If your bodily karma and verbal karma are relatively undefiled, then your mind will tend to be more stable and pure.

With Ch’an one is aware of what one is doing, thinking and saying. It’s just that you detach yourself from your problem. Most problems are due to attaching to a view of self, or to recurring thought or behavioral pattern. Alawys remember, but there be a harmony in the contraditions within you, than you will reach to the highest point and the highest peak in your art. —RH

A stable mind leads to better practice, which in turn can lead to samadhi. If your bodily karma and verbal karma are relatively undefiled, then your mind will tend to be more stable and pure.----------------------------------

The past mind cannot be grasp, The present mind cannot be grasp, the future mind cannot be grasp. ---- VArja sutra

What is a Stable mind?

With Ch’an one is aware of what one is doing, thinking and saying. It’s just that you detach yourself from your problem. Most problems are due to attaching to a view of self, or to recurring thought or behavioral pattern. ----------------------------------

If with Chan one is aware of what one is doing, thinking, and saying. Then what is Chan? an imported master? another program install?

Is Chan within or beyond the thinker?

How To DO CHAN? or it is just some fantasy? or just another fancy way of thinking named Chan.

Alawys remember, but there be a harmony in the contraditions within you, than you will reach to the highest point and the highest peak in your art. --------------------------------------

Remembers? Highest? harmony? contradiction? Peak? all these are things in duality.

Attached to duality will get one into NON-Dual — Chan?
Not in practice of Chan.

  1. How to “do” Chan.
  • sit
  1. What is Chan
  • you

Originally posted by Kung Lek
[B]1. How to “do” Chan.

  • sit
  1. What is Chan
  • you [/B]

1, sit and stand are dual, laying and erecting are dual.

When moving and stillness is non dual. when Chan and Kuen is non dual, then one do Chan.

2, who am I? the past, the present, the future evolve one? the crop after dead? the one who is living and dying in the sametime?

Chan is a living practiced to realize the non dual.

A finger pointing at the moon. without the finger one will not see the moon. Seeing the moon one doesnt need the finger.

except for the very superficial, words are useless in understanding “what is Ch’an”.