Is there a monk in the house?
Shaolin Temple & Buddhism
I was wondering if any of you were aware that throughout Shaolin’s 1500 year history, Buddhism “WAS NOT” the only religion / philosophy taught or practiced?
“Maybe not in recent years”, but confisianism, daoism, confisian/daoist hybrid mixes, muslim, etc all had been the doctrines of the Shaolin Temple. Even christianity has seen its day at the S. Temple…
The reason I bring this up is that Modern Shaolin Temple (PRC & SS) has shoveled this under the rug, so to speak, and have forbid others to speak the truth concerning this issue.
Just curious about this.
CS
Nope, had no idea. Any reliable sources in English for reading up on this, or am I pretty much out of luck until my Chinese gets better? 
The reason I bring this up is that Modern Shaolin Temple (PRC & SS) has shoveled this under the rug, so to speak, and have forbid others to speak the truth concerning this issue.
I don’t know about Muslim but, “Confucian /Daoist / Buddhist hybrid(s)” are very much part of Shaolin and Chan history. There is either some sensitivities or some monks simply just don’t know the history and background of Chan. Here is how one Shaolin monk replied to me:
“Taoists and Buddhist were NEVER kept friendships like brothers of the same sect. Their teachings are totally opposite, so this was not possible. I will not expand more on this subject due to the complexity everyones refer to.”
Why do you say forbidden?
r.
[QUOTE=r.(shaolin);808914]I don’t know about muslim(ism) but “confisian /daoist / Buddhist hybrid(s)” are very much part of Shaolin and Chan history. There is either some sensitivities or some of the monks there just don’t know. Here is how one Shaolin monk replied to me:
Why do you say “forbid”?
r.[/QUOTE]
r.(shaolin),
I will explain more (forbid) a little later. I want to see what some of the other replies are first. For very good reasons.
On Shaolin monk’s reply - “Buddhism & Daoism are completely opposite”. Only in the aspects of “religion”, but their philosophies are the same, only worded different…???.. Believe it or not… This is not hard to prove unless one is caught up on the “religion”… ???
Anyway, Lets hear some other replies first. Surely this isn’t the first time this has been brought up…
CS
buddhism and taoism are somewaht similar,
unorthodox: (pure land buddhism and folk taoism both have gods and paradise
orthodox: buddhists reach nirvana while taoists reach the “void”
“Only in the aspects of “religion”, but their philosophies are the same, only worded different”
their philosophies are the same but they ARE religions, hence different
taoists worship the immortals and taiji qiankun emperor, buddhists worship luohans and buddhas, so they have rival gods.
[QUOTE=bawang;808966]buddhism and taoism are somewaht similar,
unorthodox: (pure land buddhism and folk taoism both have gods and paradise
orthodox: buddhists reach nirvana while taoists reach the “void”
“Only in the aspects of “religion”, but their philosophies are the same, only worded different”
their philosophies are the same but they ARE religions, hence different
taoists worship the immortals and taiji qiankun emperor, buddhists worship luohans and buddhas, so they have rival gods.[/QUOTE]
Thats my point, “religion”. This will make more sense real soon. Bare with me..
CS.
[QUOTE=Citong Shifu;808969] Bare with me..[/QUOTE]
No thanks, it’s a bit chilly in here.
I have heard that these religions were all practiced at the temple at one time, I believe it to be true. Though, I don’t think Christianity played so large a part.
[QUOTE=NJM;808972]No thanks, it’s a bit chilly in here.
I have heard that these religions were all practiced at the temple at one time, I believe it to be true. Though, I don’t think Christianity played so large a part.[/QUOTE]
“I dont think Christianity played so large a part” - This is true. I was pointing out that it did reach ST at one point…
Here soon I’m going to connect kungfu to Shaolin Temple, Shaolin kungfu. I just need more replies to my original post. Some of you may find this trivial or just dont care, but in the end it will make more sense.
“HINT” Since one cannot master or gain high level understanding of Shaolin kungfu unless one is or follows Buddhism… More on that later…
CS
i really do not understand why u are hiding your information and dont just spill it out now…
[QUOTE=Citong Shifu;808907]“Maybe not in recent years”, but confisianism, daoism, confisian/daoist hybrid mixes, muslim, etc all had been the doctrines of the Shaolin Temple. Even christianity has seen its day at the S. Temple…[/QUOTE]
they have all been “the doctrines of the shaolin temple”? you mean the monks there have once even held christianity as their doctrine? 
it may have been wrong wording, but i dont agree with that at all.
basically, my view on the topic is this:
shaolin temple, at its founding was of nikaya buddhism with batuo, then chan buddhism with damo’s lineage, and from the song dynasty until now it was of caodong chan with fuyu’s lineage.
regardless of who may have visited and mingled or even took up residence, it did not interfere with these lineages- the only lineages recognized in shaolin temple history. what that means is that no one can officially take over the temple and change its doctrine without the previous lineage ending- such as when damo introduced chan, which the monks adopted, while nikaya buddhism faded.
it matters not who forces their way in and what they practice and/or teach. if it is not officially adopted as the new doctrine and a new lineage takes over while the previous ends, its simply something that floated around the temple- never to take root.
it has always been a buddhist temple. whether nikaya buddhism for 32 years, or chan buddhism and caodong chan until now. even if you acknowledge yongxin’s new monks hired from pureland temples to portray a buddhist image. still, pureland is buddhist.
its simply impossible for a temple to represent three or more different religions at once too, as i’ve heard said. i find that highly illogical.
and my view on buddhism and daosim is that their philosophies are not quite the same. that becomes clearly evident when either path is not merely studied but lived to any significant level. which i say based on my own experience.
Different religions always reach different parts of the world. Its part of the religious philosophy and their goals. I am almost sure there are different religions that reached shaolin at some point. The government in China would only like you to believe that Buddhism is the official religion over there.
i agree, immortal_dragon. thats obvious.
but the point is dude was saying each of those religions had once been the doctrine of shaolin temple.
sure, they may have been introduced there and floated around the area at different times. some may have even taken residence there for some time. but that doesnt change the doctrine of the shaolin temple.
there is a small christian church of some denomination or other that i know of, and on the weekends a tibetan monks sets up an altar there and a group comes to learn, chant, and practice the teachings of the tibetan buddhist monk.
… but the church is still a christian church of whichever denomination it is and has been since its founding. tibetan buddhists using it for some time does not change the doctrine of the church.
Anyone else find this “I’ll tell you later!” bull**** annoying?
[QUOTE=LFJ;808993]they have all been “the doctrines of the shaolin temple”? you mean the monks there have once even held christianity as their doctrine?
it may have been wrong wording, but i dont agree with that at all.
basically, my view on the topic is this:
shaolin temple, at its founding was of nikaya buddhism with batuo, then chan buddhism with damo’s lineage, and from the song dynasty until now it was of caodong chan with fuyu’s lineage.
regardless of who may have visited and mingled or even took up residence, it did not interfere with these lineages- the only lineages recognized in shaolin temple history. what that means is that no one can officially take over the temple and change its doctrine without the previous lineage ending- such as when damo introduced chan, which the monks adopted, while nikaya buddhism faded.
it matters not who forces their way in and what they practice and/or teach. if it is not officially adopted as the new doctrine and a new lineage takes over while the previous ends, its simply something that floated around the temple- never to take root.
it has always been a buddhist temple. whether nikaya buddhism for 32 years, or chan buddhism and caodong chan until now. even if you acknowledge yongxin’s new monks hired from pureland temples to portray a buddhist image. still, pureland is buddhist.
its simply impossible for a temple to represent three or more different religions at once too, as i’ve heard said. i find that highly illogical.
and my view on buddhism and daosim is that their philosophies are not quite the same. that becomes clearly evident when either path is not merely studied but lived to any significant level. which i say based on my own experience.[/QUOTE]
I never said that these religions/philosophies were “represented at one time”. Its understood that Buddhism has played the biggest role at Shaolin, but not the only role throughout its history… Furthermore, new doctorines were formed and ended, these lineage have been destroyed and kept hidden for many years. Shaolin like PRC cant let the lineage have holes. Everyone knows that in order to show purity, the lineage must not be distorted at all…
[QUOTE=unkokusai;809004]Anyone else find this “I’ll tell you later!” bull**** annoying?[/QUOTE]
If you find this so annoying, please dont reply. This thread was intended for those who want to discuss the different aspects of Shaolin Temple and its history…
Since the Jesuits landed in china in the early 1600’s everything out of Shaolin has been tainted with their virus.
[QUOTE=Citong Shifu;809066]If you find this so annoying, please dont reply. This thread was intended for those who want to discuss the different aspects of Shaolin Temple and its history…[/QUOTE]
No, it was intended to be a self-indulgent opportunity for you to try to inflate your sense of self importance.
How do I know? Well, you just think about it for a while and I’ll share my special, special answer later.
Shaolin Kungfu
The point I’m making here is that one does not have to be or practice Buddhism to become highly skilled or master Shaolin Kungfu… Shaolin Temple has had a mix of doctorines throughout its history and kungfu development and none of these religions/philosophies made the kungfu of shaolin or monk any better at the martial arts.
Now, especially through Songshan lineage, they completely mislead the world with these types of statements. These attempts to control and monopolize shaolin kungfu, like SS’s attempt to patent the “Shaolin” name, allowing wushu players to pose as monks, etc are all degrading to Shaolin as a whole.
Control is the real issue here… I agree that the SS lineage monks are the authority of there Temples kungfu, but not Shaolin as a whole. Take the Quanzhou Shaolin Temple, they’re not making such claims as SS. Why not? Because they’re not “mainstream”? LOL!
Before this gets into a heated debate, martial arts were brought to Shaolin Temple by many non-Buddhist masters, the best China had to offer. Without these masters efforts and skills, what would Shaolin kungfu be today?
Something to think about…
[QUOTE=unkokusai;809091]No, it was intended to be a self-indulgent opportunity for you to try to inflate your sense of self importance.
How do I know? Well, you just think about it for a while and I’ll share my special, special answer later.[/QUOTE]
LOL! Another person who likes to listen to himslef…