In your opinion what is the best style of Karate? NO cop-out answers like all of them are good, it just depends on the practitioner. WE SHOULD all admit that somes style give you an advantage over others. If i had to chose only one it would be Goju Ryu. It’s strong and efficient with a good blend of hard and soft techniques. I was gonna choose Shorin but i like this bettter.
“The Self Defense mentality” is one of escaping from a violent encounter unharmed. “The Warriors mentality” is one of taking out the enemy as quickly and efficient as possible- Ji Ji Ke (Ji Long feng). Which one do you have?
I know you dont want to hear it, but it depends on the person. I hold rank in Goju, along with others, and have many years in Goju. Check out Dillmans approach, I like his theorys on forms. (The theorys apply to most Karate styles.)
For example if you had Shotakan versus Tai Chi who would you place your money on. Skip all the other stuff and say they both “mastered” their styles, and that they were identical twins, best shape they could possibly be in, same genetic limitations, both had best teachers of their respective styles, Both about 40. Choose
There isn’t an answer. Which style of Tai Chi? Which ryu of Shotokan? You pick what works for you and go with it.
[i]Signed,
Rogue, Soke and Senior Grandmaster of Southeast American Brazillian Bagua Combat Chi jitsu Kempo Karate Do and Choral Society.
The only tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, “To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time." [/i]
My preference in terms of karate would go to kyukushinkai, I have sparred with many karatekas and those from kyukushin and similar variants give me a hard time. This is not to say traditional karate styles is not effective, a shito ryu guy gives me a hard time with his reverse punches (something most traditional karatekas are good in). But on an overall view for a hardass fighting style, kyukushin tops them all. I have yet to hear of any traditional stylists been able to stop a kyukushin fighter of the same rank. However, it was rumoured that Mas Oyama the founder was defeated by a tai chi master in Hong Kong when he was promoting his brand of karate. Coincidentally, many aspects of kyukushin come from goju-ryu and shotokan.
"For example if you had Shotakan versus Tai Chi who would you place your money on. Skip all the other stuff and say they both “mastered” their styles, "
I have met a couple Tai Chi instructors who teach the art and not just a small portion (Forms in the park kind of training) They actually have excellent drills in Tai Chi, they use pushing hands and other drills.
Its like any style, you can practice in the air or against another warm body and learn how to make it work.
Before you generalize how a style is make sure you run across people who know it, you might be supprised at what it has to offer.
KYOKUSHINKAI and its similar offshoots such as Seidokaikan, hands down, no questions asked! They are the only branch of karate that by and large has the ballz out full contact fighting mentality and tough conditioning/training for real fighting. They fight hard regularly and have successful competitors in many venues. They produce fighters like Filho, Feitosa, and to a lesser extent Satake. All the other more softcore karate branches have for the most part fallen into the limbo that many other traditional arts have. They train the Fred Ettishes and Minoki Ichiharas of the world. Unless you want to be a point fighter, or the guy who jumps around stage like a buffoon yelling “kiai”, Kyokushinkai is easily the best. No one else in the karate world has the fierce edge that those guys have.
I have practiced three styles of karate, Goju ryu, shotokan, and Kyokushin.
I would have to say that Kyokushin is definitely the would pick. I don’t know if it’s the mentality, the training, the conditioning but I felt best with this style.
The next style I would pick would be goju ryu because it’s a solid style with many useful technique.
As far as shotokan I would say it is decent and great for people interesting in sport karate.
I agree that kyokushin and its offshoots are the most effective styles of karate. However, all styles have produced tough fighters. Bill Wallace, one of the best kickboxers of all time and often referred to as “the world’s greatest kicker” started off studying shorin-ryu first. Benny Uriquez, arguably the greatest kickboxer of all time, started off studying shotokan and american kenpo first, and has also studied tae kwon do. I remember once reading about a cop who was a shotokan black belt, and he had successfully defended himself in street fights with his shotokan. Peace.
The Korean “Karates”- TKD, Hapkido, TSD: So diluted you might get waterlogged. Very good flexibility training. Usually the subtleties of “Ti” are missing. Bad hand techs.
Kyokushin= An Amalgam of Shorin, Goju and Chinese Kempo techs. Strong, linear karate but bad for the body (no qigong). Not for the old, weak or unathletic (about 80 % of the populace).
Japanese Goju= Very hard and bad for the body, but not as harmful as Kyokushin. Will give you power and a stroke.
5)A tie. Shotokan/****o Ryu= Japanese sport Shorin Ryu and Goju Ryu. Good basic linear karate techs., but still not enough “soyora” or softness to go with the “ijiki” (power). Many effective grappling techs never included or deleted with time to make it “school boy” friendly. Often no weapons are taught. Major drawback…
Isshin Ryu: Similar to Shotokan, but closer to true martial effectiveness. Also, like Shotokan and Kyokushin, an amalgamation of Shorin Ryu and Okinawan Goju Ryu principles.
3)A tie between Okinawan Kenpo and Goju Ryu (especially Higaonna’s system): Very good ideas about fighting, but the stances can be deep and sometimes there is too much emphasis on sparring and tournaments.
2)Another tie- Uechi Ryu and Matsubayashi Ryu (A Shorin Ryuha or subsystem): Both look really Southern Chinese. Fast, snappy movements with high chambering in Matsubayashi. Good open hand techs and koteate (body hardening) for Uechi. Some principles of “ti” are missing. All-in-all both good styles, though.
Shorin Ryu (Matsumura Seito, Kobayashi, Shobayashi Ryuhas): Closest to the original combatives taught by Sokon Matsumura after studying Jigen Ryu (Kenjutsu), Shaolin in Fuszhou, and Okinawan Ti. Change-body and tuite (Okinawan Jujitsu) are some of the specifics not learned in 98 % of other Karate styles. Weapons are second to none, and reality fighting effectiveness and tourney sparring are both awesome. Joe Lewis and Bill Wallace effectively dominated the pro circuit with only 1 year of training in their respective ryuha.
I guess you guys know what I train in and which styles I like. These are personal opinions, but they are also based on 20+ years of training in various arts here and in Asia. I have sparred them all and next to Shorin the best sparrers have been Kyokushin guys, but not much more than the Shotokan dudes (watch out for that reverse punch!). Not all karate is equal, contrary to popular belief. Only higher level practitioners know or will say this. Sorry, everything is cool, but it’s impossible for pure sport or Japanized styles to offer true intention (umuiri), when pieces of their puzzle are missing. Happy Holy-days!!!
While you bring up some good points, I think attributting the success of Wallace and Lewis in the ring to one year of Shorin-ryu is a stretch. Their success has more to do with their drive than with any single art. Though starting with a good base like Shorin sure didn’t hurt.
“Change-body and tuite (Okinawan Jujitsu) are some of the specifics not learned in 98 % of other Karate styles. Weapons are second to none,”
Ive seen the Jujitsu in the forms taught in many styles of Karate. It is prob less today as everyone self promotes to 10th degree before they learn it, but i have met legitimate high ranking people who teach it in different styles.
As far as weapons, Im not sure why you feel that way, could you expand. I know a couple of people who do strickly Okinawan weapons. its an art on its own. (Everything from Bo to Oar to turtle shells)
And as stated, kickboxers can come from anywhere, where did benny the Jet come from? He retired undefeated.
Originally posted by Dark Knight
[B]“Change-body and tuite (Okinawan Jujitsu) are some of the specifics not learned in 98 % of other Karate styles. Weapons are second to none,”
Ive seen the Jujitsu in the forms taught in many styles of Karate. It is prob less today as everyone self promotes to 10th degree before they learn it, but i have met legitimate high ranking people who teach it in different styles.
As far as weapons, Im not sure why you feel that way, could you expand. I know a couple of people who do strickly Okinawan weapons. its an art on its own. (Everything from Bo to Oar to turtle shells)
And as stated, kickboxers can come from anywhere, where did benny the Jet come from? He retired undefeated. [/B]
I’d be glad to expound on some of my points…
I, too, have seen what people classify as Japanese JJ in their karate curriculums, but that has nothing to do with knowing tuite, gyakute, tegumi or any countless other Okinawan fighting styles (striking and grappling). Many Japanese JJ and Judo methods require a different level of strength and athletic ability when compared to the simplicity, and effectiveness of Ti. I don’t have the time or space to detail “Ti” here, but suffice it to say that it is not Japanese Jujitsu.
Most real Okinawan dojos and ryu teach some form of Kobudo or Kobujutsu. There is rarely any mention of this in the schools official name, but the majority of the Shorin, Goju, Kenpo, Isshin and S h i t o Ryuha teach weapons of some sort. You don’t really have to explain to me what Kobudo is and the fact that it is also taught as a separate art, but most styles on Okinawa include it in their advanced (Brown Belt and above) curriculum. In fact my style’s name is Kokusai ShuriTe Karate/KOBUJUTSU Rengo Kai. Our kobujutsu reflects the intent of our founder Sokon Matsumura. You do receive separate rankings in Karate and Kobujutsu at my school, but weapons training is not a separate part of the teaching methodology. The same is true for most Ryukyuan arts. As for the benefits associated with weapons training; Weapons training not only teaches you how to use an implement to protect yourself, but it also adds a completely different dynamic to your empty hand strikes and proprioception. It just gives you more tools to work with, and more options are at your disposal.
Point fighting is a joke, as is most tournament oriented “fighting” (I use this term loosely). Some styles are good for self preservation, and others provide you with false pride and confidence. I’m sure Benny can take care of himself, but how much better would he be if he trained in a real fighting style? His athleticism plus even better and more scientifically sound combat techniques… DizAMN! Benny was a great sport fighter, but I think he “ducked” Royce Gracie on several occasions and refused to fight him in a challenge match. Those matches can be brutal, but they are still sport. He was an undefeated sport stylist. Why didn’t he participate in this sport challenge? I think Royce offered to put up $100,000 dollars. That’s the best purse a nonactive tourney guy would see. What did he have to lose? His decision showed, either, incredible courage or a breach in his confidence. Think of my argument like this. Sport is the beach and fighting is the water. It’s close to the ocean but the ocean is much more vast, powerful and intricate. No matter how close the proximity, one (the sand) is ground stone and the other (water) grinds it down. Plus, if you never get your feet wet how will you learn to swim? You can’t practice how to swim (realistically) on the beach. Well then again looking at the state of assumption and “cluelessness” rampant in this world, maybe some people do…
I stand by my original explanations as to what I think good Karate is and what is the antithesis of the original spirit or intent of the Okinawan masters. Things may have to adapt to the changing environment and times, but when the evolution involves metamorphosis into a different species altogether, then we’re talking about 2 separate animals. Do you understand what I’m trying to relay? Have a great week all and train smart…
