There has been many queries on this particular form. As for as I was taught and my research goes, including written materials that was given to me by my Sifu, the Late Sifu Chow Fook, the form was known as Sup Jee Kuen(Cross Pattern fist). It was a form taught by Sifu Lam (Lum)Shek of Vagabond Style (Bagger Gang?). Sigung Cheung Lai Chuen call this form Shek Si (Master Shek’s Fist) to commemerate his first teacher. It is sort of an alias thing for the form. There is also a weapon form called Yat Yue Sern Do (Solar and Luna Double Sabers), which doesn’t seem to be around in the system - at least not under that name.
Shek Si or Sup Jee (AKA Dai Sup Jee) is the first set that is taught after Jik Bo in most Bak Mei school. The reason, I surmise, is that this form is to introduce basic street fighting tools and prepare the novice student for fighting. Personally, I think Sigung don’t believe in spending 10 years to train a decent fighter. If we look at the form, there are close quarter elements, which can be use in ground range as well, in the first segment. Then the Stand up game - punches, palms, claws, elbows and kicks that are for striking, tearing, and breaking in the second segment. Finally, the takedowns, counter takedowns and deceptive tactical moves to round out the whole form. The cross pattern is to reflect the fact that multiple opponents might be involved in the streets of Canton city, towns and villages. That scenario is being coverd as well. I believe that if a person trains dilligently with this form (including working all the applications with a partner), three months can make him a descent Bak Mei Fighter who is capable to handle all ranges. Of course we are not talking refinement and the Sifu’s guidence is also a variable. See the thread below for the Shek Si application.
Sui Sup Jee is the same for the most part but there is Lung Ying elements added in the final part. The repetition of the last segment is gone and is replaced by the LY elements. The reason? Your guess is as good as mine. :rolleyes:
There is only one hand form that is attributed to Sifu Lam Shek. It is my understanding that no other forms are named after him. Hope this will help clearing the air.
Mantis108
Contraria Sunt Complementa
[This message was edited by mantis108 on 05-21-01 at 12:35 PM.]
I was told that the form “Stone Lion” was originally called “Shek Ji Sup Yee Dai Chut” - or “Teacher Shek’s 72 Earth Ghost”.
This was because Teacher Shek was one of CLC’s Sifu’s (Gypsy / Wanderer’s style), and everyday he would practice this one (unnamed) set in the courtyard between two stone lions. His students therefore took to calling the form, “Stone Lion”.
Sup Ji and “Stone Lion” (Shek Ji Sup Yee Dai Chut) are almost identical - although also distinctly different. This is where my confusion comes. Everyone says that Sup Ji is an “original” Bak Mei set, and one of the 4 core forms. However, “Shek Ji Sup Yee Dai Chut” or “Stone Lion” is a “value added form” - perhaps “modified Gypsy style”, yet somehow unrelated to original “Bak Mei”?
I am not much of a romantist when it comes to Kung Fu. I generally don’t pay much attention to stories. Especially, when you are a kid hanging around after practice and then Yum Cha with Sifu, his friends and other elders (they spoke in Hakka which was like French for me then ).
As far as I can tell, Sup Ji is from Sifu Lam Shek, and the 72 Dei Sart is from Sifu Lee Si Yee, who taught Lee Gar style. These two are different styles. IMHO, they are two different forms. However, there is a 2 men form called “Dei Sart Chak Shek Si” (Earth Demons Vs Stone Lion)which has techniques from both forms and it is practices as a 2 men form. That is the closest form, I can think of that matches the form title in question. I would not want to speculate on this one due to a lack of information to support a theory.
Hi Tnwingtsun,
The only “Flower” that I can surmise is the first few moves of the form.
Salutation
Jor Charp Fah (left plant flower)
Sheung Gord Jeung (upper cut palm)
Yau Charp Fah (Right plant flower)
Dui Ma jong Sau (Cat stance en guard)
This sequence teaches the use of the hips which can be very handy on the ground also. Other than that, I am all ears. Again, I am not much of a romantist.
i have a few 2 man sets, one of them is day sut ty chard(sp) isnt the best. it has what you are talking about, abit of sek see and day sut kuen. it has a soft part in it, like a push hand type but its not. its done fast! has the scissor legs, kum la sau, punching does it sound like yours??? i may do a mpeg for my website, when i learn how to edit and use the program i bought from hongkong.
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