i thought you had to had to have a considerable amount of coordination and flexibility to do bagua:eek:
that guy threw awkward stiff grandma kicks at the mt fighter
[QUOTE=bawang;1039553]
dont try to use kung fu to escape your life problems and make yourself feel important[/QUOTE]
if one grows up in a socioeconomically depressed environment with sub-standard educational / career opportunities, one can have a pervasive sense of being socially marginalized; TCMA, because of it’s scholar-warrior mythos, provides one with not only an escape from the grim realities of one’s daily life, but also a means by which one can now be regarded as an authority in not only martial arts, but also in philosophy, metaphysics and medicine; and while the true lack of depth and scope of one’s knowledge is readily apparent to anyone with legitimate training in any of the above noted areas, when one’s student body is comprised primarily of individuals from similar socioeconomic strata, one can live that fantasy without much chance of being “found-out”; and as a result of one’s tutelage, one’s students may substitute this fantasy pursuit for that of guns, drugs and gangs;
OTOH, if one is living in a middle-class suburbia with little to no cultural richness in one’s life, doing the 9-5 grind, or the bored-housewife gig, then a little esoterica goes a long way to giving one some sense of purpose, playing fantasy-land warrior, being privy to ancient-knowledge, spicing up one’s life; and this may give one enough relief from the lifeless routine in which one was stuck to be come a more inspired and inspiring individual to those around them’
similarly, if one is a bored rich-guy, or a neurotic hot-sh1t Hollywood actor, with a sense of entitlement a mile-wide, then of course one is deserving of receiving special teaching from a hidden master who has the absolute bestest-ever secret-sauce style, and because your intrinsic fu(ked-upness is so unique, only this yoda-like avatar is the one who has the cure for what ails ye; and at the same time, one might possibly become less of an asz-hole in the process (or not, of course)
as you can see, the golden chains of TCMA fit around the ankles, wrists and necks of people from al walks of life; the question is, while it is clearly a delusional pursuit in which they are all engaged, if it helps them cope with the dysfunctionality of their lives, and possible relieves enough of their stress to make them less sh1tty spuses, parents, friends to those around them, maybe it’s not such a bad thing after all?
it’s all Dao in the end - to confine the path of the Way to one set of preconditions is to project one’s own fragmented world-view onto the totality; which is not to say one should not follow one’s own path with passion and conviction, but rather that one might perhaps not look down on the other ants just because one is a little bit further up the side of the toilet bowl than they are… 
crab bucket…!!!
We should not
- exchange punches against a boxer.
- exchange punches and kicks against a MT guy.
- play clinching and wrestling game against a wrestler or Judo guy.
- play ground game against a BJJ guy.
We should use our strength to deal with our opponent’s weakness.
- What’s Bagua guy’s stength?
- What’s MT guy’s weakness?
What can we learn from this clip?
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1039649]We should not
- exchange punches against a boxer.
- exchange punches and kicks against a MT guy.
- play clinching and wrestling game against a wrestler or Judo guy.
- play ground game against a BJJ guy.
We should use our strength to deal with our opponent’s weakness.
- What’s Bagua guy’s stength?
- What’s MT guy’s weakness?
What can we learn from this clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4ls7SAbN24[/QUOTE]
that’s part of where the trouble begins thinking one is a “stylist” guy fighting didn’t begin with bagua lol you are a human animal you have to be beaten into a fighter and use “styles” as a weapon. it’s really a dumb conversation the tma vs sport mma convo I mean in the end all pro fighters can expect is to be a junkie like tyson or concussed like frakenstien like Ali is this what you want your son to be? brain damaged? its poor people in thailand that do fighting or they would be in med school building spaceships and ****. any one else fighting in the big leagues is some jock who is already concussed as a sports player so he may as well make money being a pro fighter as he is too brain damaged to play real sports like basketball and hockey…
any way ****s a dumb convo none of you are fighters on the pro mma side and i’m sure hardly any of you are lineage holders maintaining your style from extinction. bleh lol
[QUOTE=diego;1039704]that’s part of where the trouble begins thinking one is a “stylist” guy fighting didn’t begin with bagua lol you are a human animal you have to be beaten into a fighter and use “styles” as a weapon. it’s really a dumb conversation the tma vs sport mma convo I mean in the end all pro fighters can expect is to be a junkie like tyson or concussed like frakenstien like Ali is this what you want your son to be? brain damaged? its poor people in thailand that do fighting or they would be in med school building spaceships and ****. any one else fighting in the big leagues is some jock who is already concussed as a sports player so he may as well make money being a pro fighter as he is too brain damaged to play real sports like basketball and hockey…
any way ****s a dumb convo none of you are fighters on the pro mma side and i’m sure hardly any of you are lineage holders maintaining your style from extinction. bleh lol[/QUOTE]
The irony here is that with a post this idiotic you are the one that appears brain damaged. You are the kind of mentally challenged only a blind mother could love. Aren’t you special…
[QUOTE=YouKnowWho;1039649]We should not
- exchange punches against a boxer.
- exchange punches and kicks against a MT guy.
- play clinching and wrestling game against a wrestler or Judo guy.
- play ground game against a BJJ guy.
We should use our strength to deal with our opponent’s weakness.
- What’s Bagua guy’s stength?
- What’s MT guy’s weakness?
What can we learn from this clip?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4ls7SAbN24[/QUOTE]
You cannot do what you aren’t trained to do. This way of thinking will get you into trouble. Unless you are very well rounded you have no choice but to fight to your strengths.
The Bagua guy had no strengths in regards to this fight. His only option would be to try and strike, and in that as well he was severely outclassed.
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;1039707]The irony here is that with a post this idiotic you are the one that appears brain damaged. You are the kind of mentally challenged only a blind mother could love. Aren’t you special…[/QUOTE]
You just proved Diego’s point…LOL
[QUOTE=diego;1039704]that’s part of where the trouble begins thinking one is a “stylist” guy fighting didn’t begin with bagua lol you are a human animal you have to be beaten into a fighter and use “styles” as a weapon. it’s really a dumb conversation the tma vs sport mma convo I mean in the end all pro fighters can expect is to be a junkie like tyson or concussed like frakenstien like Ali is this what you want your son to be? brain damaged? its poor people in thailand that do fighting or they would be in med school building spaceships and ****. any one else fighting in the big leagues is some jock who is already concussed as a sports player so he may as well make money being a pro fighter as he is too brain damaged to play real sports like basketball and hockey…
any way ****s a dumb convo none of you are fighters on the pro mma side and i’m sure hardly any of you are lineage holders maintaining your style from extinction. bleh lol[/QUOTE]
Am I right in concluding that you are saying that the “Bagua” guy had no clue about Bagua? If so, I am in total agreement with you.
[QUOTE=IronWeasel;1039557]I like how he says that one of the reasons that he lost is that he overtrained.
Then he goes on to say that he only trained for three days before the fight!
Someone hold my beer and chips while I take on both of these guys…[/QUOTE]
If you go to his youtube page, he has uploaded a video of the fight with his own commentary. In the course of roughly two and a half minutes, Maoshan manages to complain the reason that he lost was because of:
- The obvious size difference.
- That he hasnt trained in wrestling.
- Wasnt in condition for the fight.
- Hasnt competitively fought for 15 years because he has been teaching.
- Mentions training for real life combat is Something else altogether.
- Keeps on mentioning he hasnt been in the ring for a long time.
- (In reference to Nakmeezy telling people he beat [Maoshans] ass) Asks when did you whip my ass?
- (When the video comes to the part where Nak is sitting on Maoshans back and punching him in the head) He says, Wow wow you beat a dude who hasnt been trained!"
I honestly could not watch the other five minutes of the video.
- The obvious size difference.
- That he hasn’t trained in wrestling.
- Wasn’t in condition for the fight.
- Hasn’t competitively fought for 15 years because he has been teaching.
- Mentions training for real life combat is “Something else altogether.”
- Keeps on mentioning he hasn’t been in the ring for a long time.
- (In reference to Nakmeezy telling people he “beat [Maoshan’s] ass’’) Asks “when did you whip my ass?”
- (When the video comes to the part where Nak is sitting on Maoshan’s back and punching him in the head) He says, “Wow … wow… you beat a dude who hasn’t been trained!"
just excuses, the thing he should be looking at is, did I learn anything from that loss?
[QUOTE=ghostexorcist;1039725]
- The obvious size difference.[/QUOTE]
his fault - he knew the size difference before the fight
[QUOTE=ghostexorcist;1039725] - That he hasn’t trained in wrestling.[/QUOTE]
his fault - he knew the rule set included grappling before going in
[QUOTE=ghostexorcist;1039725] - Wasn’t in condition for the fight.[/QUOTE]
his fault - he didn’t train enough
[QUOTE=ghostexorcist;1039725] - Hasn’t competitively fought for 15 years because he has been teaching.[/QUOTE]
his fault - don’t get back into the ring if you are not actively training for it
[QUOTE=ghostexorcist;1039725] - Mentions training for real life combat is “Something else altogether.”[/QUOTE]
his fault - don’t get in the ring if you are training for “something else altogether”
just an aside here - this is such a LAME position - sorry, full-contact ring fighting and fighting in “t3h str33t” are NOT “something else altogether” - they are variations on the same theme, which is called FIGHTING; and if you are such a hot sh1t street fighter training in a FORMAL martial art, then at the very least if you step into the ring w someone who trains primarilly for that venue, then you should at least demonstrate some knowledge of footwork, evasion, defending against leg kicks, leg grabs, leg sweeps and knees, since all of those do happen in the street! none of that was the case here - Maoshan looked and behaved like a rank amateur with no game plan and no ability to defend himself - and keep in mind that HE GAVE UP - if he is so street, where is that street-fighter attitude? the guys I know who used to thrive on street fighting, they only stopped when they were no longer physically able to keep going, not because they decided not to…
[QUOTE=ghostexorcist;1039725]
6) Keeps on mentioning he hasn’t been in the ring for a long time.[/QUOTE]
his fault - don’t get back in if it’s been too long
[QUOTE=ghostexorcist;1039725]
7) (In reference to Nakmeezy telling people he “beat [Maoshan’s] ass’’) Asks “when did you whip my ass?”[/QUOTE]
I think a shorter answer would be when DIDN’T he whip his asz
[QUOTE=ghostexorcist;1039725]
8) (When the video comes to the part where Nak is sitting on Maoshan’s back and punching him in the head) He says, “Wow … wow… you beat a dude who hasn’t been trained!"[/QUOTE]
his fault - don’t get in the ring if you are not trained
[QUOTE=ghostexorcist;1039725]
I honestly could not watch the other five minutes of the video.[/QUOTE]
it is excruciatingly painful to watch a grown man try to rationalize away the simple fact that he got owned on every level - which would be fine, and there would be no loss of respect, except for the fact that the world had to suffer his trash talk on youtube before hand ad infinitum, ad absurdum, ad nauseum - so now it’s payback time, lol…
[QUOTE=diego;1039704]that’s part of where the trouble begins thinking one is a “stylist” guy fighting didn’t begin with bagua [/QUOTE]
I’ll be the last person on this planet who care about the word “style”.
I just tried to ask questions and let others to draw conclusion. IMO, if you don’t know your strength, and you also can’t detect your opponent’s weakness, the fight should never started in the 1st place. From that clip, that MT guy seems to know a great deal of the throwing and ground work as well.
One of my favor jokes is if you can walk in circle around your opponent faster than the lighting speed, after so many circles, your opponent may turn into a new born baby. I got that idea from the 1st SUPERMAN movie. Not a bad strategy IMO. 
So seriously, what’s the strength of a Bagua guy?
[QUOTE=SoCo KungFu;1039708]You cannot do what you aren’t trained to do. This way of thinking will get you into trouble. Unless you are very well rounded you have no choice but to fight to your strengths.
The Bagua guy had no strengths in regards to this fight. His only option would be to try and strike, and in that as well he was severely outclassed.[/QUOTE]
Agree!
The Bagua guy should concentrate on his throwing skill more. I believe that should be his strength and also the weakness for “most” MT guys. Unfortunately that MT guy has good throwing skill and ground skill too.
maoshan really believed in what his teacher taught him and with his faith tried to use it. its sad how kung fu ppl on internet all make fun of him and say he doesnt know kung fu. obviously this guy is very skilled kung fu guy and is better than most of people here. i think he knows more about kung fu than me.
people cant accept the fact that kung fu is dog sh1t, and a high skilled kung fu guy is still dog sh1t.
i can identify with him because it also happened to me. i only hope he can overcome pride and “face” and make changes before he gets old and useless. hes already in his 40s or 50s he doesnt have much time left to reflect on his life.
what ben hill is doing defines chinese martial arts
[QUOTE=bawang;1039812]maoshan really believed in what his teacher taught him and with his faith tried to use it. its sad how kung fu ppl on internet all make fun of him and say he doesnt know kung fu. obviously this guy is very skilled kung fu guy and is better than most of people here. i think he knows more about kung fu than me.
people cant accept the fact that kung fu is dog sh1t, and a high skilled kung fu guy is still dog sh1t.
i can identify with him because it also happened to me. i only hope he can overcome pride and “face” and make changes before he gets old and useless. hes already in his 40s or 50s he doesnt have much time left to reflect on his life.
what ben hill is doing defines chinese martial arts[/QUOTE]
yeah i wouldnt go as far as saying useless… even if you cant fight at all but train your forms hard and do alot of drilling, you’ll still get healthy and the longevity aspects still apply…
if you want to be a fighter you must do drills that make you hard build on your bone density… iron body works… i think alot of tcma would do well after an adjustment period if they were to spar with as many other styles as possible… if they were totake it into the cage against cage fighters i think they could adapt evntually and not only build on their style but also find creative ways to use their tcma principles and stay true to their fundamentals…
as for the street, same thing, just no rules, so all techniques are allowed… in No Gi for mma we do more than whats allowed in the cage… its not all sport, we also train pressure points, small joint manipulation, breaks, illegal strikes to illegal targets like the spine, back of the neck, etc etc…
alot of tcma has what it needs to be effective, its the people who are applying it that are the fukc-ups, the weak link in the chain so to speak… its not that tcma doesnt work, its that most tcma cats dont know how to work it becvause they never use it for real… you get a guy who has never fought for real and teaches his style to somebody who in turn teaches it and so on… you look at these 3rd and 4th generations and they are so far removed from reality that its laughable to anyone who actually fights…
like bawang said, they need a reality check and if they take heed theres no reason why they cant change for the better…
personally, im working on developing my short power, i feel i can use this in combination with my grappling really well, from top, botton, clinch… i want to be able to deliver a devastating blow to the noodle from my back to a cat thats in my guard… or GnP, rain on em, short and fast, no recovery time because these arent haymakers… and in the clinch, i think bak mei will be of great use, and not in the chunner kind of way, i mean a ferocious actualy do damage kind of way… combine this with muaythai on the outside and the ground game… i think tcma is very helpful and i dont believe the bad rap tcma is getting, i dont think its the systems(well, some are garbage, but theres alot of good systems), i think its the people who dont apply the systems properly, with an open mind, well rounded… as long as pussies practice tcma and claim its too deadly to even spar without wearing a full body padded suit, alot of tcma’s are gonna produce more pussies…
its ego then ignorance… faith is ignorance, by defenition… try and test everything asmuch as you can if you want to be able to fight for real… otherwise the only people you’ll be able to win against will be drunk bar thugs and crackheads… but when a real fighter steps up, youre done… reality check…
[QUOTE=bawang;1039812]people cant accept the fact that kung fu is dog sh1t, and a high skilled kung fu guy is still dog sh1t.[/QUOTE]
No, actually it’s just your understanding of kung fu (which is really a complete LACK of understanding) which is “dog sh1t”.
Maoshan’s understanding and skill in certain areas of kung fu may be quite decent, but the problem is that he has concentrated solely on those areas and is missing some of the KEY elements which are necessary to actually USE one’s kung fu in a fight. Those key elements are conditioning and full-contact sparring. Without those, one should never step into a fighting ring.
[QUOTE=cerebus;1039905]kung fu may be quite decent, but the problem is that he has concentrated solely on those areas and is missing some of the KEY elements which are necessary to actually USE one’s kung fu in a fight.[/QUOTE]
This. A thousand times this.
Chang Quan, Chi Sao, Qin Na, Shuai Jiao, Tui Shou… it’s all explicitly there, much of it associated with specific styles… the only one not classically represented is Ground submissions.
Almost seems deliberate, too (the isolation of skill into style.)
Luckily, Kung Fu is no humpty dumpty. We can put it back together again if we know where to find the pieces and what kind of glue to use.
I’m working on it - hope you all are too.
[QUOTE=Xiao3 Meng4;1039908]This. A thousand times this.
Chang Quan, Chi Sao, Qin Na, Shuai Jiao, Tui Shou… it’s all explicitly there, much of it associated with specific styles… the only one not classically represented is Ground submissions.
Almost seems deliberate, too (the isolation of skill into style.)
Luckily, Kung Fu is no humpty dumpty. We can put it back together again if we know where to find the pieces and what kind of glue to use.
I’m working on it - hope you all are too.[/QUOTE]
F*ck yes I am working on it!!! I plan on building a website in the future looking at my studies into Chinese martial arts and Muay Thai and trying to give my honest opinion on the state of CMA, combat sports, other martial arts and the entire spectrum of related subjects, and how they inter-relate with each other.
[QUOTE=Syn7;1039835]yeah i wouldnt go as far as saying useless… even if you cant fight at all but train your forms hard and do alot of drilling, you’ll still get healthy and the longevity aspects still apply…
if you want to be a fighter you must do drills that make you hard build on your bone density… iron body works… i think alot of tcma would do well after an adjustment period if they were to spar with as many other styles as possible… if they were totake it into the cage against cage fighters i think they could adapt evntually and not only build on their style but also find creative ways to use their tcma principles and stay true to their fundamentals…
as for the street, same thing, just no rules, so all techniques are allowed… in No Gi for mma we do more than whats allowed in the cage… its not all sport, we also train pressure points, small joint manipulation, breaks, illegal strikes to illegal targets like the spine, back of the neck, etc etc…
alot of tcma has what it needs to be effective, its the people who are applying it that are the fukc-ups, the weak link in the chain so to speak… its not that tcma doesnt work, its that most tcma cats dont know how to work it becvause they never use it for real… you get a guy who has never fought for real and teaches his style to somebody who in turn teaches it and so on… you look at these 3rd and 4th generations and they are so far removed from reality that its laughable to anyone who actually fights…
like bawang said, they need a reality check and if they take heed theres no reason why they cant change for the better…
personally, im working on developing my short power, i feel i can use this in combination with my grappling really well, from top, botton, clinch… i want to be able to deliver a devastating blow to the noodle from my back to a cat thats in my guard… or GnP, rain on em, short and fast, no recovery time because these arent haymakers… and in the clinch, i think bak mei will be of great use, and not in the chunner kind of way, i mean a ferocious actualy do damage kind of way… combine this with muaythai on the outside and the ground game… i think tcma is very helpful and i dont believe the bad rap tcma is getting, i dont think its the systems(well, some are garbage, but theres alot of good systems), i think its the people who dont apply the systems properly, with an open mind, well rounded… as long as pussies practice tcma and claim its too deadly to even spar without wearing a full body padded suit, alot of tcma’s are gonna produce more pussies…
its ego then ignorance… faith is ignorance, by defenition… try and test everything asmuch as you can if you want to be able to fight for real… otherwise the only people you’ll be able to win against will be drunk bar thugs and crackheads… but when a real fighter steps up, youre done… reality check…[/QUOTE]
short power can work on the ground but for me its normally done on top not underneath, on the bottom you cant generate the power as you do standing, it comes down to just arm power, on top in the guard it can be used, but i prefer the yung ying way of producing power used with its the hammer fist from various angles, it all works well in the clinch as long as you have a clinch game to start with lol 
[QUOTE=Frost;1039929]short power can work on the ground but for me its normally done on top not underneath, on the bottom you cant generate the power as you do standing, it comes down to just arm power, on top in the guard it can be used, but i prefer the yung ying way of producing power used with its the hammer fist from various angles, it all works well in the clinch as long as you have a clinch game to start with lol :)[/QUOTE]
Bro, does lung ying have tarn ging (springy power/energy)? Where do you normally aim your soy kuils at?
Thanks in advance.