Gary Lam suggests that they are useful in basically only ONE application yet many people seem to use them at every opportunity…thoughts?
Ed 
I’d bet the most over used technique is either the bong sau or the chain punch!! Both are “trade mark” wing chun yet when you see them used they are seldom required.
chain punch is definitely overused. when you look at most wing chun demos it ends with a chain punch 90% of the time.
when you see most wing chun sparring videos its two guys running each other throwing chain punches like crazy. for some reason they post it on youtube like they should be proud of it.
[QUOTE=edseas2;910785]Gary Lam suggests that they are useful in basically only ONE application yet many people seem to use them at every opportunity…thoughts?[/QUOTE]There are lots of times to use them. If you mean when the range, openings, timing etc are all good by ‘at every opportunity’ then yes, I do. The biggest problem with some people I’ve met using them is that they try from an unrealistic range.
[QUOTE=punchdrunk;910821]I’d bet the most over used technique is either the bong sau or the chain punch!! Both are “trade mark” wing chun yet when you see them used they are seldom required.[/QUOTE]Agree 100%, especially about the friggin chain punch. It’s an exercise folks! There are few situations to use it effectively: against old women, small children and the infirm.
personally i wouldnt go as far as to say its JUST an excercise. its like throwing continuous jabs. its not a knockout move, but it definitely has its place
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;910918]There are lots of times to use them. If you mean when the range, openings, timing etc are all good by ‘at every opportunity’ then yes, I do. The biggest problem with some people I’ve met using them is that they try from an unrealistic range.
Agree 100%, especially about the friggin chain punch. It’s an exercise folks! There are few situations to use it effectively: against old women, small children and the infirm.[/QUOTE]
We are NOT fans of most of the elbow uses seen today as they are oftentimes extremely slow and leave the person using them in a very vulnerable position - sometimes off balance, used from too far away (as noted) etc so we basically agree with Gary Lam that they are suitable for only one application…
As to chain punches…perhaps the equivalent of “spray and pray” in the handgun world?
The notion that if I put out enough firepower I’m BOUND to hit something eventually.
Ed
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;910918]Agree 100%, especially about the friggin chain punch. It’s an exercise folks! There are few situations to use it effectively: against old women, small children and the infirm.[/QUOTE]
I get sick of the fact many use the chain punch exactly like the form…little body turning plus body moving foward punching right down the same line and never mix up other actions on the end.
Ive often launched a flurry (chain punch) and when the opponent covers up i launch a kick or elbow or nice body shot…
I dont think its as intergrated as i can be… in this sence it is the most overused action in VT IMO.
DREW
No one should be doing chain punches in a flurry, as in the forms - you press after each punch in 9 different directions, offsetting the opponent’s balance and hit him at will anyway you set up.
This way your flurry is giving your opponent a big beating and hitting him all over.
Its not spray and pray. Its sharp shooting and taking them down.
BJ elbows are just for emergency if you get in trouble. Don’t get in trouble, then its just you doing a beating.
Chain Punching is most overrated.
Elbows are very useful and there are plenty of applications provided:
Feet before hands, hands before elbows, elbows before shoulder (takedowns).
i.e. no flying elbows from kicking range. Although it looks cool as hell when tony jaa does it.
With all the clinching and pummeling people do nowadays its a much more “popular” range to find yourself in. having a nice arsenal of elbow strikes and applications is healthy.
Gary Lam suggests that they are useful in basically only ONE application yet many people seem to use them at every opportunity…thoughts?
Simple reasoning:
An elbow strike is very powerful. It can do a lot of damage.
Do you need a lot of different applications?
No - the only suggested application is when you are grabbed…otherwise elbows are much too slow and inaccurate and potentially put you in a very bad position and other techniques are far superior.
Ed:)
[QUOTE=edseas2;911071]No - the only suggested application is when you are grabbed…otherwise elbows are much too slow and inaccurate and potentially put you in a very bad position and other techniques are far superior.
Ed:)[/QUOTE]
Yeah, those MT guys have no idea what they’re doing.
Yeah - ring sport, wearing gloves blah blah blah.
This is supposed to be wing chun!
Ed:)
[QUOTE=edseas2;911075]Yeah - ring sport, wearing gloves blah blah blah.
This is supposed to be wing chun!
Ed:)[/QUOTE]
Ah, so what you are saying is the WC elbows suck.
Gottcha.
LOL !
???
What I’m saying is that elbows are oftentimes grossly overused by folks who don’t understand their application in the WC system.
Ed:)
“Loy Lau Hui Sung”
Ed:)
[QUOTE=edseas2;911077]???
What I’m saying is that elbows are oftentimes grossly overused by folks who don’t understand their application in the WC system.
Ed:)[/QUOTE]
Agreed, but you also said:
No - the only suggested application is when you are grabbed…otherwise elbows are much too slow and inaccurate and potentially put you in a very bad position and other techniques are far superior.
And that is not the case.
And that can almost be said about every technique.
Besides if you trained with Gary I don’t think you would say :
Yeah - ring sport, wearing gloves blah blah blah.
About MT, Gary Lam has much respect for MT.
[QUOTE=edseas2;911071]No - the only suggested application is when you are grabbed…otherwise elbows are much too slow and inaccurate and potentially put you in a very bad position and other techniques are far superior.
Ed:)[/QUOTE]
I didn’t know what Gary Lam was referring to.
So someone grabs you and you elbow them in the head. You don’t need that much accuracy IMO.
I think it’s simple enough that it just might hurt them.
Read/you should know the kun kuit (look it up):
“Loy Lau Hui Sung”
Simply stated, 99% of the time that elbows are used they violate one (or more) of our core principles.
MT is limited itself by the weapons it can use because they have to wear gloves when they fight and yes, I know that Gary respects MT as he trained in it and we have great respect for ALL arts.
Ed:)
[QUOTE=edseas2;911089]Read/you should know the kun kuit (look it up):
“Loy Lau Hui Sung”
Simply stated, 99% of the time that elbows are used they violate one (or more) of our core principles.
MT is limited itself by the weapons it can use because they have to wear gloves when they fight and yes, I know that Gary respects MT as he trained in it and we have great respect for ALL arts.
Ed:)[/QUOTE]
Glad to hear, by the way, though most train the SPORT of MT, the MA of MT, Muay Boran, doesn’t use gloves and the techniques are almost identical to the sport version.