Whose core principles? Not the WC/WT i’ve ever learned. Again, as long as your not flying in a la Tony Jaa with an elbow and respecting the range you are in, elbows are very effective, accurate, and only put you in a weak position when used improperly, like any technique of any martial art you “misuse”.
“Loy Lau Hui Sung”
Ed
Maybe we need to start putting these into Chinese for him to understand us.
because they have to wear gloves
They wear gloves, but not elbow pads. And if they have trouble defending them while covering their heads with 16 oz boxing gloves, then someone without gloves will be much more open and susceptible to getting hit with elbows.
About MT, Gary Lam has much respect for MT.
He does because he went to thailand and trained and fought with them. Somehow i dont think ed has. Hence the lack of appreciation for the art.
[QUOTE=taojkd;911094]Whose core principles? Not the WC/WT i’ve ever learned. Again, as long as your not flying in a la Tony Jaa with an elbow and respecting the range you are in, elbows are very effective, accurate, and only put you in a weak position when used improperly, like any technique of any martial art you “misuse”.
Maybe we need to start putting these into Chinese for him to understand us.
They wear gloves, but not elbow pads. And if they have trouble defending them while covering their heads with 16 oz boxing gloves, then someone without gloves will be much more open and susceptible to getting hit with elbows.
He does because he went to thailand and trained and fought with them. Somehow i dont think ed has. Hence the lack of appreciation for the art.[/QUOTE]
Excellent points.
Especially the one about the gloves.
Incredibly sad that in your wc training(?) history you didn’t learn the most basic of our core principles because, if you did, you’d know why we don’t like to use elbows…also, I never said anything negative about MT and I never would…
[QUOTE=edseas2;911099]Incredibly sad that in your wc training(?) history you didn’t learn the most basic of our core principles because, if you did, you’d know why we don’t like to use elbows…also, I never said anything negative about MT and I never would…
Ed:)[/QUOTE]
Lets play devils advocate here, which core principles do you feel that elbows violate?
[QUOTE=edseas2;911089]“Loy Lau Hui Sung”[/quote]So tell us, how does that elbow violate this rule?
Simply stated, 99% of the time that elbows are used they violate one (or more) of our core principles.
Simply stated, if you have such a low success rate at elbows, YOU should stop throwing them until you’ve learnt how to throw them properly. I use them quite nicely and within your precious rules, thanks!
[QUOTE=edseas2;911071]No - the only suggested application is when you are grabbed…otherwise elbows are much too slow and inaccurate and potentially put you in a very bad position and other techniques are far superior.[/QUOTE]And you’re suggesting that people don’t get grabbed much in fights? Try going against someone who isn’t so caught up in your little rule book - you’ll often get grabbed, and you’ll often use elbows without such a problem.
And slow? WTH are you doing so badly that makes your elbows slow? Ditto inaccurate! It’s closer to your target than a punch from the ideal punching range, so you’re less likely to miss. You really do need to practise your elbows more!
FWIW its not what principles I think most elbow techniques violate, its what the founders of the system said. - as integral to our system as chi sao or sil lim tao or the jong.
“Loy lau hui sung”
As someone once told me “A lot has been lost in three generations.” I guess that its true.
[QUOTE=chusauli;910973]BJ elbows are just for emergency if you get in trouble. Don’t get in trouble, then its just you doing a beating. :)[/QUOTE]LOL, I find this unusual coming from you as I often agree with you… ‘don’t get into trouble’? That’s right, we can all just knock em out straight off.
Personally, I think this BJ as an emergency form is largely daft. I mean, sure it’s for things that go wrong, it’s just that since we want to finish a fight in three seconds, things have already gone wrong pretty by then.
You supposed to unleash the devastating chun on them for three seconds then stand there assessing how wrong things are?
YOU: “Let’s see, is it time for Biu Jee yet? That’d show…”
THEM: Gadanga gadanga gadanga…
[QUOTE=edseas2;911109]FWIW its not what principles I think most elbow techniques violate, its what the founders of the system said. - as integral to our system as chi sao or sil lim tao or the jong.
“Loy lau hui sung”
As someone once told me “A lot has been lost in three generations.” I guess that its true.
Ed:)[/QUOTE]Yeah, we read it the first time. So enlighten us: how does this tech violate the principles of loy lau hui sung or any other of your kuen kuit?
You have a circular argument here: if you throw the elbows from a stupid position they’re wrong for the system. No ****, Einstein. Like I said, you need to practise your elbows more so you’re not violating these rules!
[QUOTE=edseas2;911109]FWIW its not what principles I think most elbow techniques violate, its what the founders of the system said. - as integral to our system as chi sao or sil lim tao or the jong.
“Loy lau hui sung”
As someone once told me “A lot has been lost in three generations.” I guess that its true.
Ed:)[/QUOTE]
Maybe you got a bum translation because there’s no mention of elbows in that saying.
[QUOTE=Mr Punch;911106]And you’re suggesting that people don’t get grabbed much in fights? Try going against someone who isn’t so caught up in your little rule book - you’ll often get grabbed, and you’ll often use elbows without such a problem.[/QUOTE]
I thought that I was suggesting that the ONLY appropriate use for elbows was when you ARE grabbed? Regardless, that is how we train…
You’re right, of course, but using elbows inappropriately (similar to how they’re used 99% of the time) violates the maxim.
Ed
What maxim is this? You keep saying were people are violating your maxims but provide no vid as an example of this erroneous use of elbows or why its allegedly wrong. Do some searching of youtube and post some examples and why each is wrong.
Well, to be honest he does say “using elbows inappropriately…” so, in essenece he is correct.
Heck using ANYTHING inappropriately violates the WC maxims.
I thought that I was suggesting that the ONLY appropriate use for elbows was when you ARE grabbed? Regardless, that is how we train…
Ed
Someone grabs me, i can, and often do, punch. I also elbow them depending on the situation. There are other times when elbows are useful.
Your bong sao gets collapsed a la BilGee elbows.
Slide in from a Bong sao -> Lan or Elbow
Huen Sao to inside of a punching arm of opponent and elbow (cause he’s too close to punch)
If you throw an elbow technique, you violate this core maxim as you can’t “stick” with it when you use an elbow technique (can’t check it OR follow it).
Its easier if you ask your Sifu to explain it to you - it really is an incredibly simple concept.
Ed
I have. To a couple different instructors that i have trained under. They all seem to think that elbows/knees/clinch (neck-pulling hand from dummy form) are useful if that’s the range the fight goes to.
As someone once told me “A lot has been lost in three generations.” I guess that its true.
A lot has been gained in 3 generations. Advancement in training methods, more arts to test the techniques against. The more people train and fight the more refined the arts will become.
If you throw an elbow technique, you violate this core maxim as you can’t “stick” with it when you use an elbow technique (can’t check it OR follow it).
Sure you can. From bong sao i slide in and elbow, sticking all the way in. Elbow from a collapsed bong sao sticks at the wrist all the way in.
When you throw a punch at someone does it “stick” to the opponent all the way in every time? No. of course not.
Didnt you post something about chain punching being the equivalent to “Spray and Pray” firearms tactic. “It will hit sometihng eventually”.
My elbow strikes are a lot more accurate than that notion.
And as for maxims. I think these are your maxims, not our core WC maxims. Or perhaps your own misinterpretations of them.
