http://home.quicknet.nl/qn/prive/wengshunkuen/index2.html
Just wondering if anyone is learning this style of WCK.
wudang
Thanks for the link Train. This website is new to me and I found the family tree to be very interesting.
Hi Hendrik,
Is there any connection between Emie and Wudang WCK??
History and developement of Wudang Weng Shun Kuen
by Rien Bul
In our modern society it is getting more and more necessary to be able to defend oneself. The Chinese culture, the oldest living culture in the world, has many thousands of years of experience with creating systems of self-defense. One of the most effective is no doubt Wudang Weng Shun Kuen, a style that is known for its pragmatic approach. But where did this miraculous style emerge from? The principle style from which (Wudang) Weng Shun Kuen was to be developed was Wudang Quan (Mo Dong Kuen), supposedly a secret shaolin style that was also the ancestor of Tai Gik Kuen (Tai Ji Quan). The following article tells all.
A secret Shaolin style
When one was trained in the Shaolin temple one was first taught the ‘hard’ or ‘external’ forms. The forms that followed would gradually soften. The main philosofy behind this way of teaching was that it was harder for the novice to understand the ‘hard’ principles than the ‘soft’.
The most advanced forms and techniques were kept highly secret and would only be taught to disciples who had already proven their trustworthyness. According to legend these last two ‘secret’ forms were taught in a hidden hall, called the ‘Weng Shun Tong’ (Hall of eternal spring). These forms were the Snake-form, a form that taught the disciple spirit, intent and deceptiveness. The other was the Crane-form and it taught the ultimate softness.
From Shaolin to Wudang
When the Shaolin temple was burned down once again by imperial troops some of the Shaolin monks who had studied the highest knowledge of Kung Fu were scattered over China. It is said that some Shaolin monks saught refuge in the Daoist Wudang temple and taught their Kung Fu knowledge to the disciples of the temple. For some reason they taught the soft styles immideatly, maybe because there was little time.
Wudang Quan
Through the centuries the Kung Fu practised in the Wudang temple aquired its own distinctive Daoist flavour. Wudang Kung Fu became known for it’s softness, wich was little understood by outsiders. To this day, Wudang styles are schrouded by a sort of mystical veil.
In time a lot of the knowledge behind Wudang Kung Fu got lost and it fell apart in different styles, that all believe to possess the gospel truth on soft-style Kung Fu. The most well known of these styles are TaiJi Quan, Hsing Yi and BaguaZhang. But there are many more little known styles.
White Crane
Other styles filled the gaps in their knowledge with easier to understand ‘hard’ techniques. One of these so called soft/hard styles is the modern version of the original crane style. There are many different versions of this style. Some versions have more ‘hard’ techniques than others. Some of them have managed to mainly stay ‘soft’.
The Qing Dynasty
The last imperial dynasty to rule China was called the Qing. The Han majority of the time weren’t very happy about being ruled by the Manchu minority. They did all they could to bring down the Ching and restore the rule of the Ming dynasty that preceded it. The monks from both the Shaolin temple and the Wudang temple weren’t very fond of the Manchu government either. They taught their knowledge of warfare to rebels who were out to overthrow this government. The widest spread styles among anti-Qing rebels were the Wudang- and Yong Chun versions of (White) Crane Kung Fu.
The ‘Red Junk’ period
Many rebels hid on opera boats. These boats, that were recogniseable by their red colour travelled from city to city on rivers and canals. On arrival they would build a stage to perform their operas. On these boats, in conjunction with the opera people, the rebels founded secret anti-Qing societies like the “Precious Jade” and “Red Flower” unions, whose secret symbol was a red plum flower. As a password, to recognise like-minded, they used a three-parted phrase: “Weng chi ji” (Speak convincingly), “Monlong jong yuk” (Think of the Han), “Dai day wu chung” (And spring will come again), that would later be shortened to “Weng Shun”. The rebels in hiding were often trained in the martial arts. The junks became a breeding-ground where new martial arts were developed. The styles practiced aboard the red junks were, of course, still very individual. Many of the rebels were, prior to their boarding, well trained in some of the systems that were to be found in the area. Styles like (pre-Wong Feihong) Hung Ga/Kuen, Choy (Gao Yee) Kuen, Bak Hok Kuen and others. All of these styles they modified for usage in narrow places like there were on the junks, in small hotel-rooms and in alleys. The fighting moves had to occupy as little space as possible, so they had to be made smaller. When possible, fights would be fought close in, even body to body. These principles can still be found in modern-day Weng Shun Kuen. They exchanged ways to accomplish their goals and so the vague features of a new style were beginning to take form…
These anti-Manchu styles all had the name Weng Shun Kuen (Perpetual Spring Fist/style) attached to their names so there could be no mistake about their intentions; to overthrow the Qing and return the Ming. There was a.o. a ‘Hung Weng Shun Kuen’ (Red Perpetual Spring Fist/style), a ‘Bak Hok Weng Shun Kuen’ (White Crane Perpetual Spring Fist/style) and also a ‘Wudang Weng Shun Kuen’(Wu Tang Yong Shun Quan, Perpetual Spring Fist/style from Wudang). When the rebellion became obsolete some of the styles felt there was no need for themselves to call their style Weng Shun Kuen anymore and dropped the name. They became known as Hung Kuen, Bak Hok Kuen, Chu Gar etc. The ‘Wudang’ version held its name in high esteem to honour its roots.
The arrival of an opera troupe was quite an event that attrackted all kinds of people engaging in commercial activeties. There were merchants, quaks, thieves, fortunetellers and of course, prostitutes.Those prostitutes mostly worked on so called “flower boats”. Prostitutes, by the way, worked under aliases, such as “Plum Flower” or “Beautiful Springtime”, etc. Most flowerboat-girls also hated the Manchu and worked with the red junk rebels. And sometimes, when a Ching official would visit such a girl, a rebel would be hiding in a closet. When the official had dismissed his bodyguards so he could be alone with the prostitute, the assasin would suddenly kill the unsuspecting victim. In other cases the rebels would ambush people they wanted out of the way in the narrow alleys of the Cantonese cities. They specialised in making this narrowness of both boats and alleys work in their advatage. To this end a style of fighting was created that suited the rebels’ needs. The movements of this style would be modified to take up very little space. The techniques were designed to finish off an opponent in the shortest possible time. They called their style Weng Shun Kuen (Everlasting Springtime Fist).
This version of the style is the one that is still mostly practised on mainland China. Another version, which name was in time accidently changed to ‘Wing Chun Kuen’ (Springtime Song Fist), was brought to Hong Kong by Yip Man and aquired world wide fame. Recently, the mailand versions are stepping in the spotlight as well. The most well known are ‘(Shaolin)Chi Sim Weng Chun Kuen’, ‘Chan Yiu Min Weng Chun Kuen’, ‘Pang Nam Weng Chun Kuen’, ‘Hung Fa yi/Hung Suen Weng Chun Kuen’, ‘Pao Fa Lien Weng Chun Kuen’ and ‘Wudang Weng Shun Kuen’.
Lots of different claims about wing chun. I have visited that site before and was not fascinated by it.
In any case- one can believe what they want but the following
statement flys in the face of what is well established taiji history.
Also problematic is the spatial relationship between Wudang and Shaolin.
“The principle style from which (Wudang) Weng Shun Kuen was to be developed was Wudang Quan (Mo Dong Kuen), supposedly a secret shaolin style that was also the ancestor of Tai Gik Kuen (Tai Ji Quan).”
Is Sun Kam = Yik Kam?
<<Leung Shum Dit (A.K.A. “Sun Kam”?)>>Wudang family tree
What’s the relationship between Sun Kam (Wudang) and YiK Kam (Hendrik’s Emie)???
Are they the same person?
Joy,
watches more hongkong movies and we will know where wck is from.
San Kam is aka Dai Fa Min Kam, ancestor of the (Jee Shim) Weng Chun Kuen system. This site/system claims he (and Fung Siu-Ching, I believe) also taught a different kind of Wing Chun, something derived from the Hebei Wudang Mountains, different in kind to what Fung taught the Lo, Tang, Dong families, and the Yuen brothers and the other late students.
There have been rumors in China that Fung Siu-Ching was originally from the north, even from Hebei. Henry Leung once said all of Wing Chun Kuen derived from Fung Siu-Ching who brought Xingyiquan from Hebei and developed it into Wing Chun Kuen (though he seems to have primarily taught Fujian, not Hebei, style martial arts to his more well known students).
Anything is possible, and in the wide world of martial arts, even more is claimed, so stories, as ever, remain stories, and if someone is interested in a teacher of this system, they should probably visit, see what it had to offer, decide if it meshes up with their needs, and go from there.
(And no, there is no relation to Yik Kam (even without a basic knowledge of Chinese, that much is evident 
), though Wudang and Emei, along with Shaolin, remain a holy trinity all their own
RH,
San kam is from with Chisim weng chun kuen line . Thanks Rene.
and now------
One of the most effective is no doubt Wudang Weng Shun Kuen, a style that is known for its pragmatic approach. But where did this miraculous style emerge from? The principle style from which (Wudang) Weng Shun Kuen was to be developed was Wudang Quan (Mo Dong Kuen), supposedly a secret shaolin style that was also the ancestor of Tai Gik Kuen (Tai Ji Quan). The following article tells all.
A secret Shaolin style
When one was trained in the Shaolin temple one was first taught the ‘hard’ or ‘external’ forms. The forms that followed would gradually soften. The main philosofy behind this way of teaching was that it was harder for the novice to understand the ‘hard’ principles than the ‘soft’.
The most advanced forms and techniques were kept highly secret and would only be taught to disciples who had already proven their trustworthyness. According to legend these last two ‘secret’ forms were taught in a hidden hall, called the ‘Weng Shun Tong’ (Hall of eternal spring). These forms were the Snake-form, a form that taught the disciple spirit, intent and deceptiveness. The other was the Crane-form and it taught the ultimate softness.
From Shaolin to Wudang
When the Shaolin temple was burned down once again by imperial troops some of the Shaolin monks who had studied the highest knowledge of Kung Fu were scattered over China. It is said that some Shaolin monks saught refuge in the Daoist Wudang temple and taught their Kung Fu knowledge to the disciples of the temple. For some reason they taught the soft styles immideatly, maybe because there was little time.
Wudang Quan
Through the centuries the Kung Fu practised in the Wudang temple aquired its own distinctive Daoist flavour. Wudang Kung Fu became known for it’s softness, wich was little understood by outsiders. To this day, Wudang styles are schrouded by a sort of mystical veil.
In time a lot of the knowledge behind Wudang Kung Fu got lost and it fell apart in different styles, that all believe to possess the gospel truth on soft-style Kung Fu. The most well known of these styles are TaiJi Quan, Hsing Yi and BaguaZhang. But there are many more little known styles.
RH, WOW
burning of shaolin is a big bang of martial art. and original of wck is the original of big bang theory?
in the past article is about the oldest wck.
now it is even older then taiji? I wish Chen XiaoWang don’t feel sad
other subject,
since i love to look into watch history…
sometimes, i hope people get smarter and learn from these people
http://store.yahoo.com/replica-haven/index.html
but even that they call themself replica.
burning of shaolin is a big bang of martial art.
Would that make the Internet the ‘big crunch’?
Originally posted by reneritchie
[B]
Would that make the Internet the ‘big crunch’? [/B]
So we need to rewrite the WCK his-story based on BIG BANG
and bring up the business climax with BIG CRUNCH in internet!
Good Business everyone is happy. and it is only show business anyway. it is business. So some wear the Daoist wear, some wear the buddhist monk ware… making moviest similar to the Shaw’s brothers… show business
See, every 40 years there is a change in economy …and every 80 years there is a big change in everything.
the first baby boom wave started at 1920/1930’s changes the economics in 1940 to 1960’s. the second baby boom wave starts from 1950 to 1961 changes the economics now till 2009. and the baby boomers of 1880 influent 1920…
So the baby boom of WCK from 1920/1930 erra changes WCK in 1940 to 1960’s. now this is the time the second baby boom wave of 1950 /1960’s to change wck.
and WCk after 80 years since 1920/1930, where the time of YKS, Chan Lo Min, Yip Man, and Cho on… time. Now it is the time of the big bang transformation…
Now if you write a book solving the 1920 or 1960’s problems it is not going to get hot and sell. Stick with the big bang and next book will be hot and sell.
<<Now if you write a book solving the 1920 or 1960’s problems it is not going to get hot and sell. Stick with the big bang and next book will be hot and sell.>>Hendrik
Hendrik, You can become a speaker just by creating the symptoms - that’s what Peevee Herman does as an actor. Stick with Hendrik’s big bang, and please inform us about your new book - “the White Crane Water Palm Wing Chun by Hendrik Santo”.
Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
[B]<<Now if you write a book solving the 1920 or 1960’s problems it is not going to get hot and sell. Stick with the big bang and next book will be hot and sell.>>Hendrik
Hendrik, You can become a speaker just by creating the symptoms - that’s what Peevee Herman does as an actor. Stick with Hendrik’s big bang, and please inform us about your new book - “the White Crane Water Palm Wing Chun by Hendrik Santo”. [/B]
RH,
Thank you.
My new book?
It might called
The factual evidents of white crane and emei connection with WCK which Rolling Hand and others tries to destroy.
Or
This Is WCK according to REAL exist ANCESTORS of WCK — not based on big bang of shao lin
Based on your post, and other data, this book is not your level. so why waste your money on something you don’t need.
Re: Is Sun Kam = Yik Kam?
Originally posted by Rolling_Hand
[B]<<Leung Shum Dit (A.K.A. “Sun Kam”?)>>Wudang family tree
What’s the relationship between Sun Kam (Wudang) and YiK Kam (Hendrik’s Emie)???
Are they the same person? [/B]
RH,
As Rene’s anwers on Sun {new} Kam , You are asking in a wrong direction. the {old }kam had nothing todo with Wudang.
Here is the direction clue you want to search in,
or might want to ask canglong, savi, train, desert, chango… they know about shaolin connection and the weng chun kuen. so they can help you more with wudang.
I wasn’t aware of the influence of ‘Tiger’ or ‘Tiger Claw’ Kung Fu on (Wudang) Weng Shun Kuen until recently. Granted, we DO have the famous ‘Tiger tail kick’ in our style’s curriculum, but that was about it. Some time ago Grandmaster Hoffmann of the (Sil Lum) Chi Sim Weng Chun Kuen branch was kind enough to send me his magnificent book on his style. I can’t thank him enough for this grand gesture and highly recommend his book to all Weng Shun Kuen enthusiasts. His style displays quite a few tiger techniques. I got curious and reviewed all hand techniques my Sifu taught me, looking for tiger-influences on my own particular style. Also, I had heard from other sources about an alledged Dragon (Loong Ying) style influence on Weng Shun Kuen. Like the Tiger style, Dragon-Kung Fu is well known for its gripping techniques. I don’t know enough about both styles to distinguish Tiger and Dragon style grips from one another. But I found that the clawing grips my own Sifu taught me to use on pressure-points, bears a remarkable resemblance to both! I was just never told that these were either Tiger or Dragon Claw techniques. My Sifu never even called it “clawing”. He just showed me the correct position the hand should have to apply the right amount of pressure on the right point and that was that! In his opinion, who would care about the technique’s name, as long as it worked? He was right, of course. Historically it is interesting, isn’t it?
Originally posted by Hendrik
My new book?
It might called
The factual evidents of white crane and emei connection with WCK which Rolling Hand and others tries to destroy.
Or
This Is WCK according to REAL exist ANCESTORS of WCK — not based on big bang of shao lin
Hendrik,
What is your point of saying “The factual evidents of white crane and emei connection with WCK”???
Sometimes a burger may be just a burger, and nothing but a burger. In your case, it is white crane burger. No one here (including RH) tries to eat your burger!
So, what’s your problem???
Hello Rolling Hand,
May I ask you what arts (or art) do you feel WC developed from?
Regards,
Jim- please dont feed trolls.!!
Hiya Joy!
I usually avoid them but from time to time its nice to actually show people that the trolls make no sense! It helps keep the new people from getting taken to the Dark Side! hehehehe
See ya,
<<May I ask you what arts (or art) do you feel WC developed from?>>Jim
Hello Jim,
It’s good to see you here. Your question reminds me this…!!!The Ch’an master doesn’t try to solve personality problem, but guides the student with the teachings of Buddhadharma, the methods of practice, lesson No.1 Don’t ask!
But if you really want to know what I feel WC developed from…
Try this,
Do 100,000 times of SNT
Do 100,000 times of CK
Do 100,000 times of BJ
Do 100,000 times of Mook Jong
Then,
Hopefully, you’ll find the answer.
Rdgs
RH
Hello,
Appreciate your reply!
Let me translate it for the people who dont know how to read Troll;
Let me write some quasi wanna-be spiritual answer and avoid the simple question being asked of me.
Dont get me wrong! There is nothing wrong with being spriritual but when you use that for any question being asked it shows how it can be used to cover the lack of knowledge or lack of desire to truly provide input.
831 posts/0 input (and you attack Hendik) HA!
Thanks!
See ya,
making sense of it all
originally posted by Jim Roselando
I usually avoid them but from time to time its nice to actually show people that the trolls make no sense!
Jim I can well understand why you would choose to use the words of others to make yourself appear smarter rather than those of your own. However those of us that understand the value of Rolling_Hand’s words as well as the jibberish of Hendrik don’t need you to dicipher who and what makes sense you seem to be having problems in that area you may need to deal with yourself.