Crosstraining is nothing new. The history of crosstraining is as long as the history of martial arts itself. Styles are formed from existing styles. Just as an example, Wang Lang crosstrained and combined material into a new style way before Bruce was born.
More examples.
Jow Gar?
What about Hung Fut?
Wong Fei Hung added some Lama Pai into his Hung Gar.
Besides styles being formed from existing styles and bringing in elements from other styles into a given art, there are and have been tons of teachers who practice multiple styles. Therefore, to say that Bruce Lee invented crosstraining is ridiculous.
I laugh out loud everytime I hear the claim that Bruce Lee invented cross training
Me too. Everyone knows it was Al Gore.
huo yuanjia…another who helped to impliment cross training habits into a program for people.
[QUOTE=iron tiger;738917]Me too. Everyone knows it was Al Gore.[/QUOTE]
I hear he invented the internet also…
What I find funny is comments with the words ‘Elite Level Athletes’, referring to only those that compete. IMO Bruce was an elite level athlete, otherwise how the hell did he develop himself into what he was? With a Bad back, bad eyes, not naturally gifted body he did pretty good by always training (this is related by all who knew him), always pushing himself. Yeah of course he didn’t do as much when his career was taking off, I would do the same. He was poor and struggling to support his family and make a name for himself, so when the opportunities came he choose to go for it. Or would one rather continue down a road going know where and become a fighter, LOL. Back in those days it would be pretty hard to support yourself being a fighter, especially in Lee’s division. To me if he wanted to he could have become a pro fighter easily, and done damm good, but he choose not to, a wise decision.
You have to walk in the man’s shoes to determine whether or not he made good decisions. He did what was best for himself and his family and look where it got him. People still talking about him 33yrs after his death!
I agree that his legend has put him up on a pedestal, and that we should look at him in a more realistic fashion, after all he was just human. He had the talent and could wipe the floor with all on here if he choose to today, so who are we to judge a man like that.
James
There is an article, have to find the link, where they look at Bruce Lee’s own notes on his workouts, taking into consideration his body size, number of sets, number of reps, weight used, etc they determined that his workout was extraordinarily AVERAGE…
Some people have a vested emotional interest in believing Bruce Lee was so unique
I do remember seeing that somewhere before.
Also, was he that fast? or was he in a Karate enviroment where chaseing hands was the name of the game, and he followed shoulder and hip movements instead? If that was the case, it wasn’t that he was so fast, it was that he was watching the core minutia, where movement starts, and everyone else was watching the end result. This kept him a step a head of everyone else at the time, so he appeared faster than he was.
[QUOTE=sihing;738942]What I find funny is comments with the words ‘Elite Level Athletes’, referring to only those that compete. [/QUOTE]
Elite level athlete refers to the level of other athletes one competes against. Elite level athlete usually refers to national, Olympic, and world championship competition level.
Since he never tested himself in open competitions against other athletes at that level, he would not generally be referred to as elite level.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;738962]Elite level athlete refers to the level of other athletes one competes against. Elite level athlete usually refers to national, Olympic, and world championship competition level.
Since he never tested himself in open competitions against other athletes at that level, he would not generally be referred to as elite level.[/QUOTE]
You know, there are and were other great martial artists out there who don’t/didn’t compete in national, Olympic, and world championship competition levels. If you want, I can name tons from the era of the 60s and 70s.
"And when guys twice his size like Joe Lewis walk away and compliment him, his style of fighting (ie.- 5 angles of atttack), his speed, etc…and when guys like Lebell take positive note of his kicking skill, emphasis on conditioning, cardio, etc…
and both guys just mentioned did compete in world class fighting events and won…
then you have to put two and two together…
and it all adds up to: EXCELLENT FIGHTER."
It adds up to something else too: YOUR LOGIC STINKS!
Maybe it’s just me but I think that a prerequisite to anyone being called an excellent fighter is that they should actually, oh, I don’t know…um…
[SIZE=“7”]FIGHT[/SIZE]
[QUOTE=The Xia;738963]You know, there are and were other great martial artists out there who don’t/didn’t compete in national, Olympic, and world championship competition levels. If you want, I can name tons from the era of the 60s and 70s.[/QUOTE]
Although usually used in reference to competitive athletes, elite level could probably be considered anyone who is at the top level of physical activity, not just competitors. Ballet stars Baryshnikov and Nureyev would surely have been considered to be elite level athletes.
The reference to Lee was not that he was or was not an elite level athlete, but that the level of sparring intensity that he was doing during his normal training was probably not at the same level that elite competitive combat athletes were normally doing at that time.
I just want to add that I don’t expect TCMA people to be able to grasp such a radical concept (actually fighting). But try to keep an open mind.
[QUOTE=Knifefighter;738969]Although usually used in reference to competitive athletes, elite level could probably be considered anyone who is at the top level of physical activity, not just competitors. Ballet stars Baryshnikov and Nureyev would surely have been considered to be elite level athletes.
The reference to Lee was not that he was or was not an elite level athlete, but that the level of sparring intensity that he was doing during his normal training was probably not at the same level that elite competitive combat athletes were normally doing at that time.[/QUOTE]
Thanks for clarifying. I understand what you are saying now. Although I have to say that I don’t know how Bruce sparred so I can’t say if it was up to par or not with others of his time. I’ve heard lots of stories of Bruce Lee fights. Although I’ll say this, in most of those stories, he doesn’t come out the winner. The exceptions to this rule are Linda Lee’s version of the Wong Jack Man fight (which differs greatly from other accounts), the story about all the challenges on the Enter the Dragon set, and some of the stories about Hong Kong rooftop fights. Other then that, I always hear about Bruce losing. On the plus side for Bruce, a lot of his contemporaries do praise his abilities.
[QUOTE=msg;738719]this can go on forever people are going to think what they want for some reason they have something against cma and the real teachers they rather go along with the stupid and closed minded westeners they have the bigest egos thats why the always have to try and prove themselvs key word try[/QUOTE]
uh, if anyone had an over inflated ego , then Bruce Lee would be an example of this.
I’m not comfortable with racists tones in anything really, but facts are facts. Bruce wanted by his own admission to more than anything be like steve mcqueen not like yip man. In fact, it was his own surly attitude that got him kicked ouyt of ip’s teaching.
he never fought, he demonstrated. There were in his own time as large a number of dudes that could ktfo him. That can be said of any screen actor. It’s like saying Jet Li is a world class fighter, he’s not, neither is Jackie Chan and never were they world class fighters. They were showmen. And that’s cool and they likely know a lot of cool stuff but just never had th impetus to apply it for real and opted for the money that comes with doing the movie fu.
besides, it’s zen to see things how the really are and appreciate something even with its warts. I still enjoy Bruce’s movies. They are a lot of fun, but they aren’t advisable to retain as instructional. 
And here’s what I find hilarious about this thread…all the Bruce Lee naysayers here wouldn’t have lasted more than 60 seconds with the guy.
Who’s kidding who around here?! :rolleyes: 
I think I’ll check out some other threads - this one is really getting old…
and dumb. 
I don’t understand how one can decide fighting in a ring, or professionally as being the only thing that determines if one is a “fighter”. I know of many TCMA throughout history as well as famous Karateka, or even Miyamoto Musashi for that matter, that never fought in “recognized” organized fights, as you put it. I know countless guys on the street who are fighters, and never entered any type of venue, other than a barroom, or back alley.
So what if Lee never fought in a tournament? He fought. Period. He is recognized by those who have far more knowledge and experience than probably anyone here. That’s enough for me.If that’s not enough for you, well then I guess that’s your problem. If you wanna go on and on speculating about something you know nothing about, we may as well change this to a Batman vs Spiderman debate.
It’s just as stupid.
BTW, this isn’t directed to anyone in particular, it’s directed at everyone.
btw-Spidey, hands down, if anyone’s interested.
[QUOTE=TenTigers;738980]I don’t understand how one can decide fighting in a ring, or professionally as being the only thing that determines if one is a “fighter”. I know of many TCMA throughout history as well as famous Karateka, or even Miyamoto Musashi for that matter, that never fought in “recognized” organized fights, as you put it. I know countless guys on the street who are fighters, and never entered any type of venue, other than a barroom, or back alley.
So what if Lee never fought in a tournament? He fought. Period. He is recognized by those who have far more knowledge and experience than probably anyone here. That’s enough for me.If that’s not enough for you, well then I guess that’s your problem. If you wanna go on and on speculating about something you know nothing about, we may as well change this to a Batman vs Spiderman debate.
It’s just as stupid.
BTW, this isn’t directed to anyone in particular, it’s directed at everyone.:p[/QUOTE]
Paleez! We all know that Batman would eventually prove the victor because of his wits.
but seriously, I do agree with this post. However, I’m sure you have also heard the stories of Bruce losing to guys who didn’t fight in the ring. I’m not saying that to demean him. I’m just saying he was a human being.
I agree. A fight is a fight. Most times,it can be any man’s day.