A word to the WCK family

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
61

[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1017134]Paul- bio mechanics is fine- but there are other things- not supernatural that can be IMO involved in human physical interactions. many human skills have been developed or used via experience and practice without opening a bio mechanics text. First rate boxers for instance can sense the beginning intent or moment of a motion of an adversary and react accordingly before the motion is really underway.

joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]

Joy, I agree, but the point is what Hendrick said here:

there is no different to use bio mechanics and physics as a mantra then using religion mantra.

Regardless of what he edited after I quoted, he associated science and physics with “religious mantra”, giving the impression that they are based on something other than proven scientific facts and theories.

Everything that the human body does, in terms of physical performance, can be explained by bio-mechanics and the laws of human physics, as such it is NOT a “mantra” or anything of the sort.

62

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1017179]Joy, I agree, but the point is what Hendrick said here:

Regardless of what he edited after I quoted, he associated science and physics with “religious mantra”, giving the impression that they are based on something other than proven scientific facts and theories.

Everything that the human body does, in terms of physical performance, can be explained by bio-mechanics and the laws of human physics, as such it is NOT a “mantra” or anything of the sort.[/QUOTE]

Either you dont know english or you puposely twisting words to win arguement.

Look at the paper I cite in my previous post , on

Human Motion Reconstruction by Direct Control of Marker Trajectories from Standford Univ

is Scientific, physics, and mechanics.

Until what you said have that same level of depth and details as the paper above.

It is a “mantra”.

See, people get their MS and PHD in this field with details hard work. Not superficial mantra reciting.

63

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1017196]Either you dont know english or you puposely twisting words to win arguement.

Look at the paper I cite in my previous post , That is Scientific, physics, and mechanics.
Until what you said have that level of depth and details. It is a “mantra”.

See, people get their MS and PHD in this field with details hard work. Not superficial mantra reciting.[/QUOTE]

This is what you said, after you edited it from the original that I quoted:

For those who keep bring up bio mechanic and physics as their mantra. Well, unless one could describe all the force vectors components and the trajectory.
there is no different to use bio mechanics and physics as a mantra then using other mantra alibi.
Those are just for arguement to boost ego.

To be fair with you I will ask you this:
What do YOU mean here?

64

Quote:
For those who keep bring up bio mechanic and physics as their mantra.

Well, unless one could describe all the force vectors components and the trajectory.

there is no different to use bio mechanics and physics as a mantra then using other mantra alibi.
Those are just for arguement to boost ego.

What do YOU mean here? ----- S

I mean if anyone want to present with / by the name of Physics, Mechanics,…
one needs to do it in a proper basic elements/formats such as the Standford University article or other professional article did.
and Thus, describing all the force vectors components and trajectory. is a MUST.

If one doesnt and cant provide the details as needed in professional physics and mechanics field, then it is using the name of Physics and mechanics as a MANTRA.

There is no different between that type of arguement to " Qi does it all." but provide no details arguement.

same type of VOODO.

65

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1017204]What do YOU mean here? ----- S

I mean if anyone want to present with / by the name of Physics, Mechanics,…
one needs to do it in a proper basic elements/formats such as the Standford University article or other professional article did.
and Thus, describing all the force vectors components and trajectory. is a MUST.

If one doesnt and cant provide the details as needed in professional physics and mechanics field, then it is using the name of Physics and mechanics as a MANTRA.

There is no different between that type of arguement to " Qi does it all." but provide no details arguement.

same type of VOODO.[/QUOTE]

While I don’t agree you need to go into THAT MUCH detail, I do, finally, see your point.
Dude, no offense, but you need to take a class on how to “speak” to people to get your point across.
Seriously, you suck at this.
You’d probably take 3 pages to explain why the elbow has to be inline with the wrist in a left hook !

66

[QUOTE=sanjuro_ronin;1017208]While I don’t agree you need to go into THAT MUCH detail, I do, finally, see your point.
Dude, no offense, but you need to take a class on how to “speak” to people to get your point across.
Seriously, you suck at this.
You’d probably take 3 pages to explain why the elbow has to be inline with the wrist in a left hook ![/QUOTE]

Ok. Thanks and appreciate!

67

new post

http://wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1271

68

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1017528]new post

http://wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=1271[/QUOTE]

Hendrik- that is a good capsule in a poetic form of your Yik Kam art.

joy chaudhuri

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[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1017538]--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hendrik- that is a good capsule in a poetic form of your Yik Kam art.

joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]

Joy,

Thanks!

70

Don’t know if I should laugh or cry or a bit of both. A clear explanation that is understandable. All those wasted posts and wasted time. It’s wonderful that you put this up . Now people can talk to each other instead of past each other. Thank you.

71

another new post

http://wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=13374#13374

72

[QUOTE=FongSung;1018757]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hendrik View Post

,
Left Leg trips out there is a aiding and countering effect.

QUOTE]

Why does it specify the “left leg” but not the right?
Or why not just state “Leg trips out…”?

IMHO,

Two important reasons which lots of people missed:
one for the Qi flow cultivation, one for force vectors.

1, In Chinese Qi and blood balance tradition of internal art;
such as Emei 12 Zhuang or any good internal art style,
Left side needs to be activated before the right side so that the qi and blood flow are balance instead of there is a delay of flow created between them.

This is important because long term imbalance such as the above cause problem in health.

Serious stuffs for Qi cultivation and body strengthening.

Thus, the sequence of the training is purposely address here. left then right.

2, If you remember the six directional force vectors in my previous post, the two left and right leg verses, are where the teaching of left and right force vectors pair were introduced.

So,
The first verse introduces the Up-down force pair, The verse of Both hand/arm raise forward introduce the forward-backward force pair, and the left/right leg verse introduce the left-right force pair.
Thus, in the very beginning of the 4 section SLT, the six direction force vectors or six force were introduced.

I brought all of these up here so that the next generation knows there are reasons and Qi cultivation rules the SLT keep reminding within the kuen kuit instruction.

However, if one doesnt have the pre-requisite knowledge or the training one will not understand and also easily missed those. if those are missed then one’s might never experience what one support to experience while practicing the set.

Thus, for my decades of dealing with the four sections SLT, I like to stick hard to the book. It is best to not change anything. That way, the keys are not distorted.

after one has master the art then one can create one’s own but that is a different issue.

73

Some complain that Qi cultivation is not scientific.

IMHO
the fact is Qi cultivation needs to evolve the body and mind to a level that the Qi flow surface due to the sensitivity of the person increase and or also the Qi circulation’s intensity increase. Without the above, Qi cultivation is in effective. without a solid attainment, there is nothing one could show. and with a solid attainment one realized it is not something to show off. However, one still could track and see how those who have the qi cultivation do when healing is needed, that is a reality.

further more, practicing slowly and relax do not equal to cultivate Qi.

practicing slowly and relax which is defined by loosely expand contribute to the evolution; however if the mind, body handling, and breathing components are not handle properly. Qi level of training will not be effective or stable.

Thus, the fifth stanza of the Yik Kam 4 section SLT kuen kuit says,

Qi activity in Dan Dien and the Du Medirian while the spine is loosely sink.

That cant be attained if one doesnt have the pre-requisit training on the Qi level.

In Chinese, there is term Called Tze Dee or sequence of mile stones in the process.
Knowing not the Tze Dee is problematic. Only with a clear Tze Dee one knows the direction of the training towards the target. Thus, Tze Dee is another key components in the kuen kuit.

With the reality of Tze Dee, we know, it is not about learning something and applied it. It is not about viewing some video tape and mimic the applications. Kung Fu is to evolve one’s body-mind and evolve one’s application capability.

Thus, if one’s kung fu or level of evolution justify what level /depth of kung fu one could learn. Cant jump steps.

Another example with the level of kung fu or the evolution is that one cant pretend one knows the subject if one is not yet there.

For example, speaking of six directional force vectors, if one really has that level of kung fu or evolution meaning the body is capable to do it. The disregard of some call it six directional force vectors, eight directional force vectors, ten directional force vectors, three force pair, six power…etc one knows because those term are just symbolic label.

now if one’s kung fu is not there, then one will argue different things is the six directional force vectors…etc. For those who knows the Tze Dee and have gone through it will certainly read the arguements and know what is the fact behind it.

Thus, it is said in the song of enligtement:

PURIFY THE FIVE EYES; ATTAIN THE FIVE POWER,
SIMPLY ACCOMPLISH THEM AND KNOW
WHAT’S HARD TO FATHOM,
SHAPES IN A MIRROR ARE NOT HARD TO SEE,
BUT THE MOON IN THE WATER–HOW CAN ONE PLUCK IT OUT?

without attain it, argue about it is similar to trying to pluck out the moon in the water.

and the whole deal of Kung fu is just
SIMPLY CAST OFF YOUR OWN CHERISHED DIRTY CLOTHES,
WHO COULD GO OUT AND BOAST ABOUT HIS VIGOR?

So nothing to be showing off or boast about.

But the kungfu is real.

74

http://wingchunkuen.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=13376#13376

A song by my high school buddy,for the past, present, and future Cho Gar WCners.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cIKrRUGkSWs&feature=related

75

Right heel with spiral force tightly stored.

Hendrik you mentioned b4 that the above is a clue to generating “Fa Jing”.
I have done some translation and think that the above mentions “bend force” not “spiral force”?

Right (yau) heel (gan) bent (kuk) power (ging) tight/firm (gan) reverse (faan) hide/conceal (chong)

Is it that my attempt at translation is incorrect?

Thinking back on the 6 vectors - could bend mean springy? that is if bend is actually the correct translation.

76

Good question.

You are correct if you translate the word directly.

The following are my view.

I purposely not using bending here to avoid misleading “bend” as bending and causing some to hold the heel joints tightly to bend which causing stagnation and screw up the structure.

I can use twist but then that can get into another kind of misleading similar to bend too.

For me,
spiral is a closer word to describe the type of jing, to avoid one from getting creative imagination or interpretation which end up misleading oneself. This is where the sifu plays an important part to coach one.

Similarly,

Qi activity in Dan Dien and the Du Medirian while the spine is loosely sink.

If one translate it wordsby word as merge/collect the Qi in Dan Dien,
That can cause misleading big time.

In practice, Qi must not be merge/collect in Dan Dien, Qi needs to keep flowing.

It is always an issue with translation. From the classical chinese to modern chinese or chinese to english. So, I describe what I know instead of translating.

since I have replied your questions in details for a few times,
Are you learning Cho family art ? What is your real name? Where do you train and who is your sifu?

It would be great if those of you who is from Cho lineage share your view on your experience and join the discussion.

[QUOTE=FongSung;1019295]
Right heel with spiral force tightly stored.

Hendrik you mentioned b4 that the above is a clue to generating “Fa Jing”.
I have done some translation and think that the above mentions “bend force” not “spiral force”?

Right (yau) heel (gan) bent (kuk) power (ging) tight/firm (gan) reverse (faan) hide/conceal (chong)

Is it that my attempt at translation is incorrect?

Thinking back on the 6 vectors - could bend mean springy in all directions? that is if bend is actually the correct translation.[/QUOTE]

77

speaking of bend or spiral…etc.

In my starting to learn WCK era, under my late sifu, there is a beginner set just for practicing the stance, step, bend, twist, and spiral. The basic concept of above Kuen Kuit actually were introduce early at the beginner level. Also, in other lineage there is a set called walking ten steps YJKYM, if my memory serve.

This set is different then the CLF Ng Lun Ma since the beginner set are target toward introductory of WCK instead of CLF based art which is related to Ng Lun Ma.

and later due to the popularity of the HK lineages WCK’s three sets, these set get less and less emphasis and fade away with time.

78

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1019342]In my starting to learn WCK era, under my late sifu, there is a beginner set just for practicing the stance, step, bend, twist, and spiral. The basic concept of above Kuen Kuit actually were introduce early at the beginner level. Also, in other lineage there is a set called walking ten steps YJKYM, if my memory serve. [/QUOTE]

Hendrik,

         can you give us a little more details about this form, which footwork and stepping patterns are practiced in this form?
79

I rather not start anyone’s imagination here. since footwork and stepping patterns only tell a small part of the story.

baisi to sifu who knows the art and learn from him/her fully if anyone is seriously interested.

My late sifu once told me to respect art. In his words, " only those who respect art will master the art."

For me,
Respect art means learn the art from proper channel and cultivate it everyday, as in Chinese tradition said " drink the water and always remember the source." Website and internet discussion forum is great for exchanging information, however an attitude of respecting the art and learn from proper channel via proper transmission is even more important.

[QUOTE=kung fu fighter;1019344]Hendrik,

         can you give us a little more details about this form, which footwork and stepping patterns are practiced in this form?[/QUOTE]
80

[QUOTE=Hendrik;1019347]I rather not start anyone’s imagination here. since footwork and stepping patterns only tell a small part of the story.

baisi to sifu who knows the art and learn from him/her fully if anyone is seriously interested.

My late sifu once told me to respect art. In his words, " only those who respect art will master the art."

For me,
Respect art means learn the art from proper channel and cultivate it everyday, as in Chinese tradition said " drink the water and always remember the source." Website and internet discussion forum is great for exchanging information, however an attitude of respecting the art and learn from proper channel via proper transmission is even more important.[/QUOTE]

Classic Hendrik:) A very simple question about footwork patterns in his linage and I get the old go Bai si answer.