a couple of clips

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
21

[QUOTE=Dave P;788550]

It’s not golf or basketbal, wrestling or boxing. The game is different and if I may say…more complex… Lineage should be BS. But as I earlier stated. There is too much difference… But that doesn’t take away that we should respect each other..
[/QUOTE]
well herin lies the problem of most people within the wing chun world that i have observed, wing chun is NOT complex its actually quite simple and once understood is easy to apply the wing chun “concepts” to anything infact nino for example often says that wing chun should once understood apply and make all skills better or to rephrase its the attention to detail that is important and i personally have found and am convinced thru observation that im my case it has made my plastering better or definately made bjj easier to learn due to that “attention to detail” that is all important, check http://www.ninobernardo.com/sensitivityanddetailsinwingchun.html
http://www.ninobernardo.com/wing%20chun%20syllabus.html
for a correct view on wing chun and the structure of the system in particular these paragraphs

and

simple as this i feel :smiley:
[QUOTE=Dave P;788550]

OK, …As we all know the principles of WC and the basic concepts…IMO the shown videos are showing some playing and mixture with more than 90% none WC things…Ofcourse anyone should play around and experience other systems. But where are we going? Is this the future of our system? An uncontrolled mixture of all systems?[/QUOTE]i never said they were for example pure wing chun clips and with regard to [QUOTE=Dave P;788550]But where are we going? Is this the future of our system? An uncontrolled mixture of all systems[/QUOTE] well as i understand it wing chun is and allways has been a system that was either developed from other systems or perhaps from various innovators either way its never imo been a ‘PURE’ system (whatever the hell that is :D) and i do agree that it showed little wing chun and would refer you to my earlier post and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CuhArrQxUiU this clip (which is very old and shows a low level of wing chun but hey we were trying :wink: )

[QUOTE=Dave P;788550]

I agree with you on getting familiar with different aspects of fighting. But I only use WC to solve the problems. I don’t want to learn BJJ to deal with ground fighters. I don’t want to lear Muay Thai to deal with clinches. But I like to train with those guys to make my WC better…To get inside their brains and learn how the are thinking in combat…Only this way I learn how my WC can deal with it. I don’t want to learn different systems to be able to solve all problems possible. A BJJ guy is more experienced in BJJ I should need to learn his system to fight him on his game. I should make my WC skills better…[/QUOTE]
here again lies a problem that you dont seem to understand the limitations of the system infact during class today sifu actually stated to me that in his opinion the only flaw in wing chun is no groundwork so im not sure how you will find the solution to finding yourself on your arse/back within wing chun so when you say
[QUOTE=Dave P;788550] But I only use WC to solve the problems. I don’t want to learn BJJ to deal with ground fighters. I don’t want to lear Muay Thai to deal with clinches[/QUOTE] i feel you are
a) very short sighted (wong sifu himself used to box and was a fan as well as using weights/punch bags ect) and
b)depriving yourself of some serious development ie in my case since i started looking outside the system everyone with whom i train has stated my wing chun has improved dramatically and in a couple of instances seniors whom i used to struggle with have been overtaken by me (sifus words :smiley: )
im glad you think wing chun has all the answers to all the combat ranges and scenarios but this IS flawed thinking and NOT correct (imo of course :D) so do yourself a favor and sort your head out, your wing chun WILL thank you for it
FY

22

[QUOTE=Vankuen;788534]I liked it. It’s the way ALL people should train. All the ranges–regardless of what style(s) are chosen.

Thanks for the clips![/QUOTE]

thank you for your positive comments they are appreciated :slight_smile:

23

also here are a few more clips that might be of interest regarding what we were doing
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDgGp_1Azr0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZnv0wZhpW0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M_GXS3fL-NM
these are just some more clips from the nino bernardo lineage and display a few different aspects of chisau (of course mine isnt as good but hey ;))

24

[QUOTE=forever young;788583]here again lies a problem that you dont seem to understand the limitations of the system infact during class today sifu actually stated to me that in his opinion the only flaw in wing chun is no groundwork [/quote]

Well you seem to see problems and limtations. You refer to you teachers classes (teachers teachings) his statings and opinions. IMO and the techings I have been given we feel differently. Why spend so much time on groundfighting when we should really try to make our selves better in preventing to go down to the ground. It’s the training of exeptions.

i feel you are
a) very short sighted (wong sifu himself used to box and was a fan as well as using weights/punch bags ect) and
b)depriving yourself of some serious development ie in my case since i started looking outside the system everyone with whom i train has stated my wing chun has improved dramatically and in a couple of instances seniors whom i used to struggle with have been overtaken by me (sifus words :smiley: )
im glad you think wing chun has all the answers to all the combat ranges and scenarios but this IS flawed thinking and NOT correct (imo of course :D) so do yourself a favor and sort your head out, your wing chun WILL thank you for it
FY

You may consider me short sighted as I might consider you not to have thrust in Wing Chun as a ‘complete’ system. And that’s a funny thing as we seem to be from the same lineage. Your teacher as well as mine had their training under WSL himself. Even in our lineages there are differences in opinion. That’s a good thing as we are forced to think for ourselfes instead of copying our teachers. But nothing’s wrong with taking someone’s experience in mind. Even here you refer to WSL as not being a short sighted man… Yes he had respect for western boxing and yes he looked outside the system, but he never turned his back to it. He never claimed that the system was incomplete. Neither is my teacher and neither am I. Those are differences in opinion, and IMO no problems or short sightment.

Let me again make one thing clear…You must lokk outside your system to see the way others fight. But I indeed actually feel that the principles of WC have the answers… It will take at least a lifetime to achieve max 70% of the system…I don’t have the time to train all possible exeptions.

I therefore appreciate this discussion. Respect…

25

[QUOTE=Dave P;788550]WC is not any other athletic activity/sport. It’s not like boxing or wrestling. It’s WC and unfortunately the WC lineages differ so much… It’s like comparing appels with pears. The fundamentals SHOULD be the same. (just like with playing golf or tennis…) It’s not wrong to learn from our teachers or teachers teachers. As long as you as still learning the skills yourself…
[/QUOTE]

Thinking WCK – or any martial art for that matter – is different in kind than other athletic activities is precisely the kind of thinking that has led TCMAs to where they are: useless in terms of developing higher levels of functional fighting skills.

It’s a wordplay again. Of course you all have to develop it yourself, but it’s the teachings you learn them from. And the insights you develop trough you teachings AND personal experience. Your not inventing the whole system again like inventing the wheel…

It’s not wordplay – there is an important distinction. You don’t “inherit” riding a bicycle or basketball or boxing or golf or WCK. It’s not “passed down” – activities and/or skills can’t be “passed down” or “inherited”. This way of thinking views WCK as something knowledge-based, like a secret formula (people who think this way like to refer to WCK as “the system”). It’s not. WCK, like any martial art, or any competive athletic activity for that matter, is a skill-based activity. You learn the skills, then “do the activity”. The “insights” and “teachings” are secondary and are only useful insofar as they help you develop the skills and do the activity.

It’s not golf or basketbal, wrestling or boxing. The game is different and if I may say…more complex… Lineage should be BS. But as I earlier stated. There is too much difference… But that doesn’t take away that we should respect each other..

Yes, the game is different – but basketball is different from wrestling too. The point is that they are all athletic games, athletic activities. WCK is no more “complex” than boxing or wrestling; if it were, it couldn’t possibly work. And as they are all atheltic activities, we should look at them all that way. If we looked at boxing like people look at WCK, it would be in the same state as WCK. And it wouldn’t be boxing that changed, just how we approached it, viewed it, that drained all the usefulness out of it. Until we look at WCK the same way we do boxing or wrestling or basketball – as long as we are locked in the the traditional chinese view – we won’t change how we treat it, how we train it, etc.

OK, …As we all know the principles of WC and the basic concepts…IMO the shown videos are showing some playing and mixture with more than 90% none WC things…Ofcourse anyone should play around and experience other systems. But where are we going? Is this the future of our system? An uncontrolled mixture of all systems?

I don’t agree at all that “we all know the principles of WC and the basic concepts” (though most people believe they do know). To really know anything beyond a superficial level only comes from the process of attaining skill, fighting skill. And our knowledge level will correspond to our fighting skill level. Since most WCK people couldn’t fight beyond a very low level with their WCK, they only have a very poor understanding of WCK, including the principles and concepts. All they have are theories of what they believe or have been told WCK “should” be.

My view is that the forms, the drills, etc. are not WCK. Those are the superficial aspects of WCK. WCK is in the application, it is in the fighting, in the doing of the activity. No fighting, no WCK. Just like boxing, just like wrestling, just like basketball, etc. The amount of time any person has spent “doing WCK” is the amount of time they’ve spent sparring. Everything else is prep work. It’s sad to say that most “grandmasters” and “masters” have spent little to no time really practicing or doing WCK. And even the ones like Wong, who fought more and had more skill – and so knew more – can’t tell us how to play the game ourselves. You learn to box by boxing. No one can tell you how to do it. You need to find your own way. A good instructor can help you learn the fundamentals, can help you find your way of using those fundamentals, but only you - and you alone - can develop your WCK. And that only comes by doing the work: doing WCK, fighting with WCK.

But WCK itself is only a tool, just like wrestling or boxing or BJJ is a tool. I use those tools that help me get the job done. It’s the job and getting it done that is our objective, that is important.

The future is only in the hands of those with genuine skills – the ability ot use their WCK in fighting against good opponents.

I think we’d be better off being less concerned about the future and more concerned about what we can do today.

I agree with you on getting familiar with different aspects of fighting. But I only use WC to solve the problems. I don’t want to learn BJJ to deal with ground fighters. I don’t want to lear Muay Thai to deal with clinches. But I like to train with those guys to make my WC better…To get inside their brains and learn how the are thinking in combat…Only this way I learn how my WC can deal with it. I don’t want to learn different systems to be able to solve all problems possible. A BJJ guy is more experienced in BJJ I should need to learn his system to fight him on his game. I should make my WC skills better…

WCK doesn’t have the answers to all fighting problems. It provides a certain skill set, and those skills are useful in certain situations/contexts. As I said, it is a tool. Outside of that situation/context, WCK is a liability, not an asset. A hammer is great for hammering, but outside of that context is it limited. You can be the best boxer or the best WCK fighter on the planet and a good BJJ fighter will destroy you on the ground. He has the skill set for the ground – the boxer and WCK fighter doesn’t. And, he has the experience, having fought thousands of hours on the ground (which is why he developed that skill set in the first place).

If a person’s goal is to develop good fighting skills, and to be a well-rounded fighter, then they need to develop their own game, their own way of dealing with stand-up, clinch, and ground. That game only comes from playing the game, and playing it an awful lot. And it helps – greatly – to have experienced, knowledgeable people help you develop your game. If you want to develop good ground skills, then learn from a skilled ground fighter about how to fight better on the ground.

26

Wing chun is incomplete

Yeah, you are right! Wing chun is incomplete.

What are you going to do when you are on the ground?
What happends if a fight is on grass?
What do we do if someone has a finger in our eye socket?
Can we do anything if someone grabs hold of our fingers?
What do we do if we meet a savate practitioner?
What do we do if we meet someone who does Pakistani Ju jitsu?
What do we do when someone is kicking us in the face with steel toecaps?
How do we counter a mantis’ phoenix strike?
What do we do when faced with a Turkish wrestler with oil on his body?
What happends if we are faced with someone that’s just invented his own style which we know nothing about?

We better spend the next 100 years’ on researching how to counter all the limitless permutations of possibilities in a real fight.

*******Wingchunfighter

27

[QUOTE=Dave P;788600]Well you seem to see problems and limtations. You refer to you teachers classes (teachers teachings) his statings and opinions. IMO and the techings I have been given we feel differently. Why spend so much time on groundfighting when we should really try to make our selves better in preventing to go down to the ground. It’s the training of exeptions.

[/QUOTE] i will honestly say that i have ‘seen’ what happens when people think that they are too good to be taken down and what people (including myself before i found out different) think they can ‘prevent’ going to the ground especially within the wing chun framework (close/infighting/dirty boxing range) and to be brutally honest it is very very hard to prevent someone taking you/dragging you down/going down. i will give 2 examples of how this MIGHT occur

1, my favorite is the drag down which would involve literally grabbing a limb/clothing anything i can get hold of and pulling/dragging you down to the floor. this only needs a firm hold of something and can be achieved via clinching/tying up or simply covering up and rushing in. it is virtually impossible unless you deliver that knockout blow (again pretty unlikely that you will get a one punch knock out especially if im covering up and especially as in my opinion the fact you will be trying to ‘close the gap’ anyway) that you would stop this kind of takedown as it would require lots of space and out of this world footwork to prevent me grabbing you not to mention it requires only an arm or something for me to grab in order to execute especially as i WOULD be both willing and fully expecting to receive some kind of strike as i know that chances are its unlikely as i stated to be a clean enough blow to do any real damage as i would be covering up anyway.

2, slip trip fall punch, all these things are possible especially in the ‘heat of battle’ :smiley: so you can quite easily find yourself on the floor despite the best of intentions.

as an exersize perhaps you should get a training partner/friend/student what ever and ‘see if you can grab him firmly’ if you can the chances are you will feel that you could drag him to the floor quite easily.

[QUOTE=Dave P;788600]b
You may consider me short sighted as I might consider you not to have thrust in Wing Chun as a ‘complete’ system. And that’s a funny thing as we seem to be from the same lineage. Your teacher as well as mine had their training under WSL himself. Even in our lineages there are differences in opinion. That’s a good thing as we are forced to think for ourselfes instead of copying our teachers. But nothing’s wrong with taking someone’s experience in mind. Even here you refer to WSL as not being a short sighted man… Yes he had respect for western boxing and yes he looked outside the system, but he never turned his back to it. He never claimed that the system was incomplete. Neither is my teacher and neither am I. Those are differences in opinion, and IMO no problems or short sightment.

Let me again make one thing clear…You must lokk outside your system to see the way others fight. But I indeed actually feel that the principles of WC have the answers… It will take at least a lifetime to achieve max 70% of the system…I don’t have the time to train all possible exeptions.

I therefore appreciate this discussion. Respect…[/QUOTE]
i think you misunderstand me. i HAVE complete faith in wing chun as a delivery system and set of common sense principles ie: use of (or attempt to) body mass to deliver strikes, non telegraphing of strikes etc etc but i disagree that the principles would take a lifetime to achieve as this would indicate that it is inefficient and complex which as i have outlined above is imo an incorrect view of the system. i will also make clear i am not nor will i “turn my back to it” i will however accept that
1, it has NO GROUND FIGHTING and
2,despite my best intentions i might well find myself there anyway
i will also point out that by training bjj or anything else in no way detracts from my wing chun and (i was only having this conversation with my brother the other day) as a human being our brains are not so stupid that i can only learn/execute/do one thing at a time so with that in mind there is imo no problem training every system under the sun (i only wish i had the time) for example my bjj training is on days when there is no wc classes so unless i spend the time on the wall bag/jong which after a few years has much more limited use, i wouldnt be training anyway so it dont steal any time from my wc (usual argument is ‘i would rather spend the time doing wc’)
and i dont train ‘all possible exeptions’ just the most likely ones
and to make clear i also appreciate the discussion :smiley:

28

[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]Yeah, you are right! Wing chun is incomplete.

What are you going to do when you are on the ground?
What happends if a fight is on grass?
What do we do if someone has a finger in our eye socket?
Can we do anything if someone grabs hold of our fingers?
What do we do if we meet a savate practitioner?
What do we do if we meet someone who does Pakistani Ju jitsu?
What do we do when someone is kicking us in the face with steel toecaps?
How do we counter a mantis’ phoenix strike?
What do we do when faced with a Turkish wrestler with oil on his body?
What happends if we are faced with someone that’s just invented his own style which we know nothing about?

We better spend the next 100 years’ on researching how to counter all the limitless permutations of possibilities in a real fight.

*******Wingchunfighter[/QUOTE]

this is all you have to contribute? what a crock of crap

29

[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]Yeah, you are right! Wing chun is incomplete.

What are you going to do when you are on the ground?
What happends if a fight is on grass?
What do we do if someone has a finger in our eye socket?
Can we do anything if someone grabs hold of our fingers?
What do we do if we meet a savate practitioner?
What do we do if we meet someone who does Pakistani Ju jitsu?
What do we do when someone is kicking us in the face with steel toecaps?
How do we counter a mantis’ phoenix strike?
What do we do when faced with a Turkish wrestler with oil on his body?
What happends if we are faced with someone that’s just invented his own style which we know nothing about?

We better spend the next 100 years’ on researching how to counter all the limitless permutations of possibilities in a real fight.

*******Wingchunfighter[/QUOTE]

Actually, if you just spent time going live in the three ranges (outside striking, clinch, ground), you would begin to figure many those things out rather quickly… you would also find that figuring out all of those permutations is a natural part of what happens when you actually spar in a live manner. Additionally, you would be less likely to be surprised by something new.

Only theoretical non-fighters think you have to do "research"on how to counter the limitless permutations that happen from fighting. People who actually spend their time “doing” know that figuring those things out is not only part of the training, but figuring those things out also helps you to develop new permutations of your own. They also find that there are generalities that can be transferred from one platform to another… but these generalities can only be figured out by actually doing the activity.

30

[QUOTE=forever young;788618]this is all you have to contribute? what a crock of crap[/QUOTE]

Theoreticians can only contribute theory.

31

[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]Yeah, you are right! Wing chun is incomplete.

What are you going to do when you are on the ground?[/QUOTE]
brazillian jiujitsu
[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]
What happends if a fight is on grass?[/QUOTE]
pretend to be a cow and eat it
[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]
What do we do if someone has a finger in our eye socket?[/QUOTE]
blink
[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]
Can we do anything if someone grabs hold of our fingers?[/QUOTE]
shake their hand
[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]
What do we do if we meet a savate practitioner?[/QUOTE]
say hello
[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]
What do we do if we meet someone who does Pakistani Ju jitsu?[/QUOTE]
ask him if he can rustle up a curry
[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]
What do we do when someone is kicking us in the face with steel toecaps?[/QUOTE]say ouch
[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]
How do we counter a mantis’ phoenix strike?[/QUOTE]
with a grasshopper eagle claw
[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]
What do we do when faced with a Turkish wrestler with oil on his body?[/QUOTE]
call him a pervert
[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]
What happends if we are faced with someone that’s just invented his own style which we know nothing about?[/QUOTE]
laugh till urine runs down our legs
[QUOTE=chisauking;788615]
We better spend the next 100 years’ on researching how to counter all the limitless permutations of possibilities in a real fight.

*******Wingchunfighter[/QUOTE]
or we could just look as to the evidence as presented via both experience and the media available and train accordingly

32

[QUOTE=Dave P;788489]
The critics I had were on the clips.. I could also say… Where is the WC…?
I have learned the system doestn’t have any groundwork involved. Some systems added it later. (Especially ith the UFC time period) Some systems like to mix with BJJ and so. These clips show me a mixture where WC is hard to find… The mentioning of the WSL (lineage) WC system has arrised me some doubts as I may say…[/QUOTE]

Hard to find? How much did you watch?

They did some chi sao in the clips and forever young never claimed the clips contained WC ONLY.

If you have some bias against grappling arts then you shouldn’t have watched. If you clicked on the link you would have seen the title of the clip was BJJ-WC.

33

[QUOTE=Edmund;788623]Hard to find? How much did you watch?

They did some chi sao in the clips and forever young never claimed the clips contained WC ONLY.

If you have some bias against grappling arts then you shouldn’t have watched. If you clicked on the link you would have seen the title of the clip was BJJ-WC.[/QUOTE]

thank you for seeing it for what it was

34

knifefighter sez: Only theoretical non-fighters think you have to do "research"on how to counter the limitless permutations that happen from fighting

Is that why wing chun practitioners worry soooooo much about ONE possible permutation of a real fight…like being taken to the ground?

I’m still trying to work out the limitations of wing chun when faced with someone that’s bigger, stronger, taller, and faster than me, so don’t worry too much about me…I’m just a novice compared to you guys

35

[QUOTE=chisauking;788633]Is that why wing chun practitioners worry soooooo much about ONE possible permutation of a real fight…like being taken to the ground?[/QUOTE]

Since that is 1/3 of the fighting ranges, I’d guess that might be an important consideration.

I’m still trying to work out the limitations of wing chun when faced with someone that’s bigger, stronger, taller, and faster than me,

IMO, that IS the limitation of WC.

36

But that doesn’t take away that we should respect each other..

(Dave P)

Respect is what was missing from your first post (where is the Wing Chun?), and the is the reason why you’re now trying to rationalise your foot out of your mouth.

Kudos to the OP’s for posting the clips. Nice to see sincere effort and exploration.

37

Well done for posting the clips Forever Young. I only watched briefly but I like the honest approach you have to training as further evidenced by your written responses. If you are from Nino’s line (not that it matters!) I am sure you are well aware of what constitutes good Wing Chun.

Personally, I had similar sentiments to a few people, many years ago. this was when I thought that Wing Chun contained all the answers. However, try as I did I could not get past certain limitations, particularly the ground aspect. As much as I would love to say that it contains all the answers, I don’t think it does.

I once thought I could prevent being taken down using Wing Chun. Until I came across a ‘reasonably’ skilled submission fighter. Thankfully and despite a bruised ego, I realised a new approach was needed. In short, I woke up. Now, I am humble enough to ask for guidance from anyone who I think could help me become a better Wing Chun man.

To those who cross-train, they in my opinion are the true heralds of Wing Chun as they have escaped the dogma of a dated art. These are the ones who are injecting a new energy into Wing Chun, not through ‘mixing it’ with other styles. But more rather, by subjecting it to pressure testing against other styles.

WWW

38

[QUOTE=chisauking;788633]knifefighter sez: Only theoretical non-fighters think you have to do "research"on how to counter the limitless permutations that happen from fighting

Is that why wing chun practitioners worry soooooo much about ONE possible permutation of a real fight…like being taken to the ground?

I’m still trying to work out the limitations of wing chun when faced with someone that’s bigger, stronger, taller, and faster than me, so don’t worry too much about me…I’m just a novice compared to you guys[/QUOTE]

ok if its you im thinking of then you held/attended a seminar by gary lam correct?
now if it is you then im sure you were impressed by lam sifu?
then consider that he learned (and as far as i know still does/teaches) muay thai and had no problem with this.
my own sigung nino bernardo teaches kali/escrima alongside his wing chun and as i pointed out wong sifu spent time boxing and tai chi
so with that im mind what would be your argument against learning another skillset alongside the one you are trying to develop (wck)? the resistance to cross training i see within wing chun staggers me as i personally see it as a progressive fighting system that would incorporate and compliment any other system (or vice versa) and to train something else dosnt mean that you have ‘sold out’ so to speak. funnily enough you mention bigger stronger, taller, faster guys than you well as far as i understand it bjj reverse engineers a fight by saying what happens when faced with and opponent who is bigger stronger and more agressive than me AND has already floored me/is on top of me (which im sure we can all agree is likely because as stated hes bigger, stronger and more agressive than me) and then attempts to turn that situation around, and to be brutally honest its no good saying it wouldnt happen because basically that is 1, depending on luck and 2, wishfull thinking
well im just glad i have a small (very small at the moment) amount of skill that would hopefully stand me in good stead when im standing up AND if/when i hit the deck
just my 02

39

[QUOTE=Wu Wei Wu;788638]Well done for posting the clips Forever Young. I only watched briefly but I like the honest approach you have to training as further evidenced by your written responses. If you are from Nino’s line (not that it matters!) I am sure you are well aware of what constitutes good Wing Chun.

Personally, I had similar sentiments to a few people, many years ago. this was when I thought that Wing Chun contained all the answers. However, try as I did I could not get past certain limitations, particularly the ground aspect. As much as I would love to say that it contains all the answers, I don’t think it does.

I once thought I could prevent being taken down using Wing Chun. Until I came across a ‘reasonably’ skilled submission fighter. Thankfully and despite a bruised ego, I realised a new approach was needed. In short, I woke up. Now, I am humble enough to ask for guidance from anyone who I think could help me become a better Wing Chun man.

To those who cross-train, they in my opinion are the true heralds of Wing Chun as they have escaped the dogma of a dated art. These are the ones who are injecting a new energy into Wing Chun, not through ‘mixing it’ with other styles. But more rather, by subjecting it to pressure testing against other styles.

WWW[/QUOTE]

i give sincere and honest thanks to both you and anerlich for your positive feedback, i AM the future of wing chun
(he says with tounge firmly in cheek :p)

40

Although wing chun hands can ADD to one’s takedown defense nicely, the fact is that without basic wrestling/grappling skill in sprawling and all other related anti-takedown wrestling/grappling moves (ie.- w h i z z e r s, underhooks, crossfaces, etc.)…

the odds are you’re going to be taken down by a good wrestler/grappler who can take a punch on the way in - and who doesn’t have a major size/reach disadvantage compared to you.

CROSSTRAINING is the state-of-the-art.

There’s just no getting around it.