How many 8-Step forms or sets are there? I heard there are more then 5 forms in 8-step including the 2 person forms.
Here is what I know:
Seven Hands
Lipi
Small cartwheel
Big cartwheel
Sessions 1-6
Continuous Palm
Hope this helps.
There are a total of 10 as taught by james Shyun although he only teaches the first 5 and young sparrow set for children.
- Qi sao -7 hands
- Xiao fan che- small rolling wheel
- Lipi - power cut
- Da fan che - large roling wheel
- Lanjie - intercept
forms
I previously studied Shuyn style and was only familiar with the 5 named forms, do you know the 5 advanced forms, even if only by name? Also not many videos posted on 8 step. I don’t have a camera, and am too far from good to do the forms any justice, but was wondering if any one has any videos they’d be willing to share?
Later,
Forkin Theroad
I came accross a video for sale by James Shuyn. It is called “Ten body coordinations”.
Is this a form in 8 step? If so, is it traditional?
Thanks for any info.
forkin the road,
I’ve learned only part of the 6th kuen while I was in SF I do have a video of the midget chinese guy doing all 10 forms (cant remember his name) but he turned out to be a spy for another master in taiwan (yes its true) but lost the chinese translations somewhere. but cherrish the video as i have never seen more than the first 5 sets in 8 step.
mantid1, the 10 BC are the first things you learn in our system. you preform the properly and fluidly to obtain your yellow sash.
they are very basic linear drills to co-ordinate the left and right side as well as upper and lower body working together. They are not considered forms. bu take on actual applications in the silver level and useful for fighting in thier own right.
Do you know if there is a video clip on the net anywhere? I would like to see what they look like. I have heard of similar exercises form other mantis systems and was wondering if they could be connected in some way.
Does any other branches of the 8 step do these exercises?
Thanks
Hold Up
Wait Wait Wait,
I need more info on this assailant, was he spying for another 8 step school? Was Shyun training him? Was he training with your group when you where training with Shuyn? How long did it take him to learn 10 forms, and how did you get a video of him performing the forms? Is he in any of the pictures on your web site? Or was this something that happened a long time ago, and you heard about it? and almost lastly do any of the forms resemble any the 6 sessions?
I myself am ignorant to these body coordinations, are they 8 step or something brought in, or created recently to help teach 8 step? Do they show up in any of the forms? In either event Can you describe one, as I wonder if I know them, but know then as something else?
Lulusweeps, Do you know all of those forms listed? Or currently train in Ba Bu?
Thank you,
Forkin Theroad
what are you talking about?
Just a question.
The 10 body coordinations
Why is this name used?
It is not a correct translation.
On the Shyun vidtape he says this in English and then follows with the Chinese, “shi lu tan tuei”
If you follow the history that this style is named after Tan Sz temple then we can translate it as 10 roads of tan kicks.
Others use the character for tan which means springy and they translate it as 10 roads of spring(y) kicks.
Wah Lum, the only Mantis style to have actually incorporated Tan Tuei into the Mantis uses the tan character which means “to seek”
BTW, for WL folks I recomend the study of Gung Li chuen for a deeper insight into your art and its roots.
So, Shyun’s Chinese is correct.
It is 10 roads of tan tuei-shi lu tan tuei. This version done by Shyun is almost definetly the one brought to Taiwan by Han Chin Tang with variations added by someone else, possibly Shyun himself.
It is important to note that 10 roads of tan tuei is not an 8 Step or a Mantis routine.
Wei Xiao Tang had his equivalent of the 10 roads of Tan Tuei encompassed within 8 roads.
On seeing Wei perform those 8 roads it is immediately apparent that they are Mantis.
Other Mantis branches also have their own roads for beginners, Zhang De Kuei of Mimen Mantis in Taiwan had 7 Roads, Jia Jingting and Li Kun Shan also had their roads.
HK 7* has their 14 roads. In every case, except for 10 roads of Tan Tuei, it is immediately apparent that these are roads for the training of Mantis.
10 roads of Tan Tuei are tradionally used for the training of the cha cheun style and its relatives.
Baji also has its roads of training which are unique to Baji.
So, the question is, does any 8 Step school besides the one in Taiwan still use the original 8 roads of 8 Step?
Seven Hands
Lipi
Small cartwheel
Big cartwheel
Sessions 1-6
Continuous Palm
I also have seen taught Babu Zhai Yao #1 and Babu Zhai Yao #2 and don’t really know how Babu Zhao Yao’s exist.
We first learned a moving set of 6 application/postures eventually found in some of the forms—there is a 2nd and 3rd set and I am pretty sure they were arranged by Su Yu Zhang and do not link directly into the 8 Step mantis.
I also learned a two man punching-like pushing hands drill that I think came out of the 8 step system.
Thanks Kevin
Tanu tui. Great.
The “coordinations” in the name is what threw me off. That and I think he is in a “mantis pose” on the front of the tape.
The reason I asked is I know that WL has a ten hands of the mantis basic exercise and was wondering if it had the same roots. It is not even close to the tan tui sets, so now I know this is not the case.
Thanks again
forkin the road,
The guy I am talking about was relocated from taiwan. he was a really short man, almost a midget. He lived with Shyun, did his laundry and various others chores to pay for lessons.i cant remember his name to sabve my life but he was there in the late 80’s and one day shyun found a crumpled up note written by this guy to his shrfu that had said he was learning from shyun and had convienced him to teach him the 10 sets of ba bu, as well as the wu style as taught to wei by wu ching chan. After readig the note shyun stopped teaching him the sets and kicked him out of his house.
as for the amount of time to learn the forms i do not know he was there before i joined the ACMAF.
I had recived a copy of the tape from Dean Economos. shyuns only 5th generation shrfu.
the forms themselves have lots of bone breaking jestures, power cuts and ti (front sweeps)
why did you never learn the body cordination? it is the first thing taught in 8 step, yellow sash, you learn to move like this before you are taught the 8’s
KEVIN B,
you mentioed the Tan Sz temple, where is this? taiwan? and how does it play into 8 step?
also you said brought by Han Chin Tang, who is this? and what role does he have in 8 step? yo dont consider the cordinations as kuen do you ? i think they aremore just basic linear drills to get you comfotable to move like a martial artist for the average beginner… thanks for your answers in advance.
Hi Mike,
Han Ching Tang is one of the most well known and respected MArtists of Taiwan.
He was as I recall from memory an instrucor in fighting for the gov and wrote an offical manual which is now a collectors item.
He is as well known if not more so tha Wei.
He is a graduate of NanJing Guoshu Guan, which makes him one of the top MArtists of China pre ww2.
There was footage of him doing his tan tuie on the web a while ago, I don’t know where it is. very old BW.
Tan sz temple is unrelated to Mantis
Tan Tuei style is unrelated to MAntis
Han Ching Tang has no role in Mantis
The method of tan tuei is not the Mantis method of teaching.
The Tan Tuei are the most well known and widely practiced style in all of China I think.
Some people do them as 2 man forms, some do not.
Other mantis shools also teach tan tuei to kids and some beginners becuase Mantis movemnet is often too abstract.
For teachers who did not teach tan tuei in their basic mantis curriculum they have their own series of Mantis exercises. Wei had 8 of them, not 10.
Wei’s 8 are totally and completely different from tan tuei 10(or12 for some)
Hi Shifu Brazier
You Posted:
[/QUOTE]For teachers who did not teach tan tuei in their basic mantis curriculum they have their own series of Mantis exercises. Wei had 8 of them, not 10.
Wei’s 8 are totally and completely different from tan tuei 10(or12 for some)[/QUOTE]
Would you happen to know what the 8 basics are? Are they listed on GM Wei’s website? If so I am completely missing them. If you know them, could you list them in order or PM them to myself or Fork in the Road?
Fork in the Road and I have great interest in anything that relates to Traditional Ba Bu as it comes from GM Wei.
In response to:
“The guy I am talking about was relocated from taiwan. he was a really short man, almost a midget. He lived with Shyun, did his laundry and various others chores to pay for lessons.i cant remember his name to sabve my life but he was there in the late 80’s and one day shyun found a crumpled up note written by this guy to his shrfu that had said he was learning from shyun and had convienced him to teach him the 10 sets of ba bu, as well as the wu style as taught to wei by wu ching chan. After readig the note shyun stopped teaching him the sets and kicked him out of his house.”
Shifu Puyot attempted to respond to this post, however his computer is preventing that from happening. So to relay his response…
In the brief time that Tony Puyot was living with Xun Shifu, he remembers one other Chinese individual who lived at the same place. Shifu Puyot can’t remember the guys name, but knows that he did not train regularly with the other students. Could this be the same person?
M.
8 steps page
http://www.babutanglang.com/styles/bb_baxingbu.html
Chizica and Rich,
Hopefully this page will answer your questions.
Here are decriptions of the 8 Steps as written by Wei himself.
The translations are not perfect and I will redo for the whole apge as time allows.
Any comments or constructive criticism is welcome.
Here is the home address
Kevin
Michael desargo,
Dean thinks his name might have been kim or kun or something like that. he was a very short guy almost a midget wore glasses and learned privately from shyun.
he was not enrolled per’se in the regular classes but rather trained with shyun after schol hours.
I dont know thier relationship howver shyun took this guy under his wing as a favor from someone in taiwan and taught him all 10 forms.
whether these are from Wei I have no idea. But after finding the note written by kim/kun to his shrfu in taiwan in the garbage shyun vowed never to trust anyone with the information he was taught.
Then he shortened the 10 to just the first 5 as I have and many others been taught.
I am the only one besides Dean who has a copy of the tape. I have tried to do the forms from watching the tape but as everyone knows you really cant grasp it properly. Also they are speaking chinese through the whole thing, however it was transferred from 8mm so the sound sux.
Kevin, interesting… could it be that shyun added these to his version of 8 step to make it easier for beginners in the US? are there any versions out there similar? have you sen the 10 body co-ordinations?
I can list them is you like…
Shifu Brazier
Thank you. I didn’t know that the eight “moving steps” as I known them to be called, were also known as the 8 basic movements.
Xie Xie
Update
Earth Dragon,
Yes, my Shifu remembers the guys name as “Kin” with an “n”. To his knowledge, Kin was American born, and had learned here in the US (as opposed to Taiwan). Kin and my Shifu remembered each other when he arrived at Xun Shifu’s place, because they knew each other from previous events/training. Sifu Tony is currently having trouble remembering Kin’s other teachers’ name.
Back to the subject of the 10 froms, my teacher currently remembers them as
Li Pi
Qi Shou
Xiao Fan Che
Da Fan Che
Tang Lang Shou
Zhai Yao
and a few others I can’t recall at this moment. However, the forms on the video of Kin may be similar to the versions that my teacher learned.
Talk soon,
Mike