There must be a time that we all must come together and explore the system we are in. Even if we are tought under different sifus. It would be nice to have a forum to discuss our system together without any arguments. Note that other systems do view our system as **** and it is because of this bullshit fighting. If i where to see a 8 step student in trouble reguardless from my school or not I will be there for them. We are told that we are all one and that is how I see and feel. If you enter this discussion, then let it be a positive one. The way the world is going and how my life is heading I really do need to hear positive things especially about out system. If we need to compare then do so but in a positive and respectable manner. Thank you all…
Agreed
I am with you on this, I will always be down for my 8 step mantis brothers even though i am no longer training under that system with them. I learned alot from them and miss their conpanionship.
One who has two roots becomes a stronger tree.
Question?
(Bowing In)
Has you style been put thru alot of crap?? Is it because this thing with Sifu Sun?? If so that is a shame. From what I have been reading there have been words back and forth about that.
What ever the style, one should be conpeled to help someone in need. I Studied 7 star, that does not mean that if you study 8step I would not help you. Or has that been the case? Please clue me in. Thank you.
(Bowing Out)
“Even if you study, research, or practice daliy. In Martial Arts, we should all be family. As we should all be children of GOD.”
You read my mind
I think that’s great idea - I actually was thinking the same thing last week after seeing the Master Wei 8mm tape.Ya know , I’m thinking ,“Well at least we all agree that master Wei was the 3rd generation inheritor” Nobody can deny Master Wei, and that we all came from him - it’s a fact that is universaly acknowledged.There are many battles being waged about the 4th generation inheritor though.I think we need to have one or two topics per week posted, and have everybody join in (while totally ignoring trolls) - this may end up taking years because of the complexity of 8 step, but it would be somewhere that one could go to and be sure of what they are practicing.
Topic 1 - week ending 20APRIL01
I’ll start this weeks - Body coordination one - not the application, but the showing - list step by step
Topic 2 - rocking pushups with palms flat on the ground
See how easy that is? We can start with basics, and work our way up -
ok
horse, bow, tiger, mantis, crossing-leg, 50/50, falling, and single-leg. there done hee heehe
joking
One who has two roots becomes a stronger tree.
…continuing
To continue along my last post … It would be a good idea, the 20? or 30? 8 step students that regularly contribute to this webpage can contribute opinions, and try to exhaust options of that given week’s topic.It would just make sense to begin at the begining and progress from there.It would be interesting and informative to see what a couple of dozen people have to say about a given technique or training method.8 step seems to have this “secret society” shroud around it, and it is not like a more wide spread system such as 7 star, where there exist multitudes of schools, books, tapes and information.It will be interesting seeing what the majority says about a given technique.Of course next week’s logical post would probally be body coordination #2, and rocking pushups on the five finger tips? Internal, qi gung , tai chi and weapons could be explored down the line, but I’ll be the first to admit that I don’t have alot of knowlege in those areas.
Eliminate the threat of law suite, and you eliminate the source of conflict. That is the first step toward peace and unity. All sides save face.
We can spend our money fighting in court, or we can use it to preserve the 8 Step system.
I hear there are 5 great 8 Step schools in Western N.Y. Buffalo area?
Your move…
Well…I don’t know about 5 schools, I think there are two left over - Sifu George’s, and Sifu Mike’s - and I don’t even know if Sifu George is affiliated with Master Sun any longer.There was three at one time: Mike’s (Haley),George L , and Steve Spoth - Sifu Steve is promoting Krav Maga sp?, and I don’t think he is associated with Master Sun either - so as far as I know, last I checked, there is just Sifu Mike Haley left over here in the Tonawanda area.
I don’t know what the other sifu of Master Wei are planning, but, it has been my own personal thought that Master Sun will probally sit back and laugh at all this crap until the logical conclusion, and start teaching 8 step to some 5 year old boy in 20 years from now, and pass the system down then.From what I’ve seen and heard, the dream of having a school in each of the 50 states of the union is a long way off for Master Sun - because of all the a**hol#'# that have betrayed his trust over the years.I smelled something fishy in 1994 when I began - and you know what it is? It is power hungry egotistical people that ruined the system and started this lawsuit - I have no knowlege of this lawsuit other than what I heard on the web here.What I think it is , is a 20 - 30 year experiment by master Sun to see what student / schools lasted the test of time -and then the real teaching and passing down of knowlege will begin.
Robert you hit the nail on the head. It was a 20 year experiment. I know I’m on the right path. Wanna know what Master Sun’s attitude is? It’s like this, “Have fun, if you want to go elsewhere, have a great time.”
He’s doing exaclty what Master Wei did, but he’s more honest about his approach. Master Wei would say, “You know it all, now be content and don’t bother me” Master Sun will let up peak every now and then at how much we (at my level) truly don’t know or are capable of understanding. It may be a 20 year haul, but I know that I’ll be getting more info over that time that I could anywhere else.
What all these former students are mad about goes back to an old chinese tale
A zookeeper gave his monkeys 2 apples in the morning and 3 at night, but the monkeys were mad. Then the man gave them 3 in the morning and 2 at night and the monkeys were happy.
So what difference does it make if (in the prestandardized past/traditonally) he waited a while and then gave it all. Or like now as it’s gradually divied out over time. Those without forsight left, and those with slightly more intelligence stayed around and will get everything.
Do you think that ancient shaolin is the only institution to test a students intelligence and character before letting them in on the latent aspect of a system? No, there are just different methods to doing it. Shaolin did this to protect their reputation and integrity. They should have copywrited it…just look at shaolin do.
As for the lawsuit, I have nothing to do with that, but I know why it has to be done. Don’t take it personally, the copywrite was set a long time ago before you even knew what 8 step was. Without checks and balances we will get bastardized, pulled apart and destroyed as a system. It actually has more to do with the fact that if you can use our name, then every crappy mcdojo on earth can also use our name and we’ll go the way of Shaolin karate or shaolin do. We’ve got something great and we can’t afford it to get mixed up with crap. It’s really not about the 3-5 folks in the country who know some 8 step from Master Wei or former students of Master Sun’s. Thats not big enough to care about. It’s only important to protect us from becoming one of chung moo do’s 9 shitty styles. It’s about protecting the integrity of the system.
don’t worry be happy
Ok then … body coordination 1 - is anybody into discussing the 1 or 2 tech/ training methods per week that has been described on the posts of this topic or no?
very good
I am glad to see so kind of progress. We must understand one thing. That we are “ONE” no matter who is teaching the system. To compare and be able to view master Wei is a real treat for us all. Remember, outside students or inside students we all have a lot to learn and no one should have the attitude of being better than the other. I would love to see another class and see how 8 step is practiced. I will never critize nor would I put them down. I would join in and just learn. I have kids and the older I get I still am learning even if they are just 3 years old. Sometimes we need to sit back and look at everything and ask ourselves: “I’m I happy with my life”? and if so then keep going and enjoy no matter what others might say. To all my brothers
“Seize the day and live life to the fullest”
In response to 8 Step Sifu’s post…
Then why is James Sun directing his attack at former students of Grandmaster Wei who use the 8 Step name…And even against his own students who have certificates from James Sun authorizing them to teach 8 Step and no longer desire to be part of his organization?
In the past James Sun has threatened to sue former students of Wei Xiao Tang on at least 3 occasions that we know of in Texas and California. Their pictures are in Wei’s books. Now Sun is threatening to sue a former disciple of his who is currently learning from 8 Step Senior Disciple, Master Lin Chun Fu.
First of all, 8 Step Praying Mantis is a style of kung fu…The name has been around long before James Sun ever decided to register it as the name of his business. His “right” to use the name can be legally challanged. Any wrongful attempt to enforce a trademark is viewed as “malicious persecution”.
If James Sun feels he is “Sole Inheritor” of 8 Step, he has the burden of proof…And will have to provide legal documentationof his claim which, until now, has never been contested.
There are many legitamite 8 Step teachers in Taiwan also…If you don’t believe it, go there. We know of someone who is there right now studying with Master Wang Jia Lang, also a student of Wei Xiao Tang.
You tell me…How does threatening to sue legitamite 8 Step teachers benefit the system. People like Master Lin Chun Fu have studied 8 Step from Wei since before James Sun was even born.
Eliminate the threat of law suit against legitamite 8 Step sifus, and you eliminate the source of conflict. It is the necessary first step toward peaceful coexistence and harmony amoung 8 Step practitioners around the world.
“Do you bring in a lamp to put it under a bed?”
I’m curious
How do Master Weis public students structure teaching? Ten Roads Tan Tui (10 body coordination) I know 8ths arent there, and they only have the first few sets, but what training drill are the same from Grandmaster Sun’s teaching methods and other former students of Master Wei?
Do they do the Tai Chi? Iron body, Iron palm.
Young sparrow set (even though it’s not an 8step set)
Do they teach throwing or Joint locks?
I know they teach the steping up front, but do they teach you how it applies in conjunction with the character princibles and applications? Do they teach fighting? Are all the stances and strikes the same? Do they have a standardized way of presenting the material or is it helter skelter?
just curious
don’t worry be happy
SOme of the best Iron Palm I have ever seen is one of your ex-8 step students John Newberry Check out his break at www.prayingmantiskungfu.com and go to photos. Im good friends with him and I have seen him set up two block no spacers, slap the top and break the bottom. He learned from some guy in Delaware. Love ya 
ok
but that doesn’t really answer my question.
don’t worry be happy
Yes, 8 stepsifu - that’s the way I was taught - and actually, you mentioned something about the stepping, and footwork - you know this already, but most of it is in the first 4 levels - I used to think that the begining levels had some bogus stuff like the kicking combinations, and even the ten body coordinations, but it’s like an onion, you just keep on pealing back layers and finding things.I’m glad that my sifu had an advanced class going because we touched on many things that linked where we were then and the high gold levels and beyond.Other shi# I figured out was from observing Ba Gua ,and Hsing Yi stuff.
body coordinations are great
for getting people coordinated enough to do kung fu. Also it you do them with actuall springing legs, they develop power. They are actually traditional to 8 step and not new on the scene.
They are the Shi Lu Tan Tui or ten roads tan tui.
The even older name is lo han tan tui.
Kicking combos are probably new.
also there are lots of footworks and even some low mantis within gold mantis 1-5, it’s just a matter of recognising it. There are loads and loads of cool stuff in the gold mantis + applications. I learn a new aspect to 8 Step every time I teach them.
The application as of standardization have a wide mixture of finishing throws and hand changes. It’s a tremendous amount of information, trouble is, most people want to blow past it to get to the “secrets” when lots of the “secrets” are right in front of them. I recently realized this and I’ve been just staring at the wealth of information in my note books
don’t worry be happy
Proof
Hey andy,
Why dont you just ask sun to prove once and forall he is who he says he is. If he is Grandmaster he should have pics or sort. If it was a public ceremony and people where there than you should have some names. Please dont take this the wrong way, if I am wrong I will formally apologize. There is too much conflicting stories on this subject, let put it to rest.
LOVE YA 
Pi Si…
Pi Si… All James Sun has to do is post disciple certificates from Grandmaster Wei or even a traditional picture of Wei and him together.
Also there is no such thing as a “Sole Inheritor” of a kung fu style…Just recognized masters who have trained longer.
Here’s a lead for you…
The 8 STEP PRAYING MANTIS KUNG FU ACADEMY OF TAIPEI in Taiwan, Master Zuo Xian Fu. Master Zuo lived with Grandmaster Wei 5 years before died.