Fukien/Fujian Yong Chun White Crane is the father of Okinawa/Naha Te and Karate. Some say it’s the base of Wing Chun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1145222]Fukien/Fujian Yong Chun White Crane is the father of Okinawa/Naha Te and Karate. Some say it’s the base of Wing Chun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s[/QUOTE]
Can’t be Phil. I’m not lying or even trying to say HKM had it all when I say that WC is based off of structure that connects to center of gravity when an opposing force gets in the way of attack. Ask Joy, ask Fong Sifu, I’ve tried to express the foundation of WC but no one wants to listen… If one would only understand that concept, one would progress beyond their own expectations…
Phil,
1, The following clip, starts 4.58/10.00 is exactly the type of old red boat Wing Chun Chi Sau which found in older Wing Chun family such as the Cho family and YKS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QadGsuB9O5Q&feature=related
2, after this chi sau section, one can see the soft of White crane. that is similar to the crane playing with its wings. however, this is not the path Wing Chun’s designer took.
Wing Chun took the Emei snake path where the finger and wrist part is tracing circle, where the other parts of the body limps/ joints is waving in an “S” shape. the tracing circle is what it is call the worm move, where the S shape trajectory of the body limps is called snake slide.
That is what a Worm move snake slide is about. that is the Snake engine of WCK.
Due to this different engine, the power, power generation and structure handling of WCK is different with the White Crane as shown in the clip.
So, it is more then just the intention or Nim Lik or triangle most of us think. the snake engine bring WCK into a dynamic structure platform.
So, for the set of WCK, if it is not practice with the snake engine, it will default back to White Crane.
Hendrik,
I did that double circling type chi sao for years in Hei Ban Wing Chun.
Suki
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1145222]Fukien/Fujian Yong Chun White Crane is the father of Okinawa/Naha Te and Karate. Some say it’s the base of Wing Chun:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mWh-uhw4C9s[/QUOTE]
Agreed @ Wing Chun. Looking at some of the characteristics of Fujian White Crane and Wing Chun it seems that there are too many commonalities for it to be coincidental.
[QUOTE=Wu Wei Wu;1145308]Hendrik,
I did that double circling type chi sao for years in Hei Ban Wing Chun.
Suki[/QUOTE]
Thanks for sharing.
[QUOTE=trubblman;1145309]Agreed @ Wing Chun. Looking at some of the characteristics of Fujian White Crane and Wing Chun it seems that there are too many commonalities for it to be coincidental.[/QUOTE]
The snake engine is still not well known yet. But it will be the next thing because it give soul to the set. It is like the reel silk to Chen taiji. That is the uniqueness. Otherwise it default to white crane or even some has mixed hung gar.
Hendrik:
A simple and easy question related to the discussion if I may …
Who have you actually trained with in White Crane?
I am sure we would all grow and learn from your answer here. Thank you.
[QUOTE=Minghequan;1145523]Hendrik:
A simple and easy question related to the discussion if I may …
Who have you actually trained with in White Crane?
I am sure we would all grow and learn from your answer here. Thank you.[/QUOTE]
Dont hold you breathe waiting…
GlennR:
Dont hold you breathe waiting…
Hi Glenn!
Hey another Aussie! Great! Why do you think Hendrik won’t answer?
What style do you do? Always interested in hearing about others experiences in the Martial Arts!
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1145279]Phil,
1, The following clip, starts 4.58/10.00 is exactly the type of old red boat Wing Chun Chi Sau which found in older Wing Chun family such as the Cho family and YKS.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QadGsuB9O5Q&feature=related. . . . 2, after this chi sau section, one can see the soft of White crane. that is similar to the crane playing with its wings. however, this is not the path Wing Chun’s designer took.
[/QUOTE]
Thanks, I can see some commonalities.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1145554]Thanks, I can see some commonalities.[/QUOTE]
If you look at the description Phil its says ‘Poon Sau’ 
But from my research this is how the whole of the mainland Yong Chun boys roll, influenced mainly by Pang Nam I think. Also what others would call ‘wristing’ :eek: and many Taichi groups have exactly the same rotation.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1145565]If you look at the description Phil its says ‘Poon Sau’ 
But from my research this is how the whole of the mainland Yong Chun boys rolls, influenced mainly by Pang Nam I think. Also what others would call ‘wristing’ :eek: and many Taichi grous have exactly the same rotation.[/QUOTE]
Ok-I am happy not to do mainland rolling- good wing chun chi sao is good enough for me- it’s more comprehensive.
Pan Nam? he basically did hung ga and learned some wing chun.Not comprehensive.
I dont use the term wristing. The role of the kiu is important.
Taici/taiji structure is quite different from wc.
joy chaudhuri
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1145568]Pan Nam? he basically did hung ga and learned some wing chun.Not comprehensive.[/QUOTE]
My point exactly Joy I wouldn’t even say the Red Boat guys/gals did this as their main concentration was on set posturing, not fluid interactions like this.
This is also where the mainlands Yong Chun Wushu developments originate I think, but can’t be sure.
[QUOTE=Vajramusti;1145568]-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ok-I am happy not to do mainland rolling- good wing chun chi sao is good enough for me- it’s more comprehensive.
Pan Nam? he basically did hung ga and learned some wing chun.Not comprehensive.
I dont use the term wristing. The role of the kiu is important.
Taici/taiji structure is quite different from wc.
joy chaudhuri[/QUOTE]
Joy,
The modern day WCK chi sau type is an invention of yks and ip man.
All older WCK lineages using the white crane type of chi sau platform. It is not taichi because the power generation and center line theory is in play in white crane.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1145565]If you look at the description Phil its says ‘Poon Sau’
But from my research this is how the whole of the mainland Yong Chun boys roll, influenced mainly by Pang Nam I think. Also what others would call ‘wristing’ :eek: and many Taichi groups have exactly the same rotation.[/QUOTE]
Yks and koo lo and cho family were there rolling that way even before pan nam was born.
white crane is not hung gar and not taichi because the center line theory is always playing within the chi sau. Also the power generation is different.
It is time for wcners to read in depth into the subject.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1145572]Joy,
The modern day WCK chi sau type is an invention of yks and ip man.
All older WCK lineages using the white crane type of chi sau platform. It is not taichi because the power generation and center line theory is in play in white crane.[/QUOTE]
Sure Hendrik… but Leung Jan-Leung Bik-Ip mam winchun in it’s better versions has evolved beyond earlier roots.
joy
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1145575]Yks and koo lo and cho family were there rolling that way even before pan nam was born.[/QUOTE]
Which only adds to the argument that Pan Nam has no legitimacy to help develop Wing Chun as a Wushu sport! I was only indicating who has influenced what ‘now’, because forgive me, I didn’t see any one from Kulo/Cho or YKS family get involved.
[QUOTE=Hendrik;1145575]white crane is not hung gar and not taichi because the center line theory is always playing within the chi sau. Also the power generation is different.
It is time for wcners to read in depth into the subject.[/QUOTE]
I think you need to look into other southern arts more too Hendrik, because to imply that Hung Kuen or Taichi have ‘no centre line’ training or concepts is ridiculous dude!
And on a personal note, I do not believe that YKS & Ip Man ‘invented’ any new interactive training.
[QUOTE=LoneTiger108;1145587]Which only adds to the argument that Pan Nam has no legitimacy to help develop Wing Chun as a Wushu sport! I was only indicating who has influenced what ‘now’, because forgive me, I didn’t see any one from Kulo/Cho or YKS family get involved.
I think you need to look into other southern arts more too Hendrik, because to imply that Hung Kuen or Taichi have ‘no centre line’ training or concepts is ridiculous dude!
And on a personal note, I do not believe that YKS & Ip Man ‘invented’ any new interactive training.[/QUOTE]
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Pan nam can do what they like on their line of wing Chun.
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To the contrary, because looking at the DNA. Hung kuen doesn’t have the center line theory as white crane . Taiji doesn’t either. Thus, white crane is called one of the major seed of tcma in the Chinese history.
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Reality doesn’t need to fit anyone’s believe.