Yin or Yang

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Wing Chun
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I have heard different Lineages of Wing Chun speak either mostly all Yin or all Yang. But not too many realize WC is both Yin and Yang.

Yin=Soft,Slow,Insubstantial and Passive.

Yang=Hard, Fast, Substantial and Aggressive.

Most guys who fight in a ring or cage with their WC only tend to focus on Yang aspects. An those who do not fight at all believe all they need is Yin or soft force to redirect. What about using both?

What do you guys think. I believe Wing Chun is both External and Internal. Both Waijia and Neijia. But some people believe it is all one or the other an neglect certain aspects of WC training?

What do you think?

2

Wing Chun is both Yin and Yang. I don’t agree that Yin is soft. Yin quality is soft only on the outside but hard on the inside otherwise it won’t work. Better to be all Yang if you don’t know the Yin.

3

Yin Soft

Yin is soft…Now you can have hard concealed in soft

Thats what the little smaller circle means. Soft concealed in hard and Hard concealed in soft!

[QUOTE=stonecrusher69;920220]Wing Chun is both Yin and Yang. I don’t agree that Yin is soft. Yin quality is soft only on the outside but hard on the inside otherwise it won’t work. Better to be all Yang if you don’t know the Yin.[/QUOTE]

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What do you guys think. I believe Wing Chun is both External and Internal. Both Waijia and Neijia. But some people believe it is all one or the other an neglect certain aspects of WC training?

I don’t really care what other people think, and neither should you.

5

Don’t care

Well the Forum is a place to hash out opinions. Hear like minded thoughts. Enjoy conflicting opinions. To learn from those more experience and knowledgeable than yourself. To impart your knowledge to those just starting their WC journey.

Thats whole purpose for fun. Thats why I care!

[QUOTE=anerlich;920247]I don’t really care what other people think, and neither should you.[/QUOTE]

6

I read WC described once as a cotton ball filled with needles, soft looking just dont squeeze, good way of describing it IMO

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[QUOTE=Katsu Jin Ken;921543]I read WC described once as a cotton ball filled with needles, soft looking just dont squeeze, good way of describing it IMO[/QUOTE]

is it true?

8

I think of it as both considering we use a stystem that relies on both sides equally in combat…Poon Sau being the perfect place to start thinking about VT techs being Yin and yang…they work together for balance…

On the other hand does it matter what one thinks or what one can Do ?

DREW

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Every movement of the human body has a percentage of both yin and yang. You cannot be 100% hard, and you cannot be 100% soft. Its physically impossible.

That being said, every movement you make, from a soft or hard perspective, is variable based on necessity, in combat.

There may be a focus on not fighting force with force. Or a focus on using your strength and pushing through, but nonetheless, at some point you must yield, and at some point you must push back. Thats the nature of combat.

One cannot exist without the other, so the concept of “Soft” styles, and “Hard” styles is, simply put, a ridiculous and incorrect oversimplification aimed at describing a particular focus of a style’s strategy.

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[QUOTE=Liddel;921549]
On the other hand does it matter what one thinks or what one can Do ?

DREW[/QUOTE]

It matters only to you, and not what other’s think of what you think and do. Too many times we fall into the trap of letting other’s opinion’s of us dictate what is right or wrong in our lives. Deep down we already know what is good for us. Of course we do need to gain the advice of mentors and people that are further down the road than us, but ultimately we need to investigate for ourselves, and not take another’s opinion or judgement as truth. Truth is very personal. As Bruce said, all knowledge is really “self knowledge”.

James

P.S. There would no yin if yang did not exist, the reverse is true as well. So therefore one can conclude that if you are exibiting a so called “yang” quality, that you are capable of exibiting the complimentary quality of “yin” as well.

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[QUOTE=AdrianK;921557]Every movement of the human body has a percentage of both yin and yang. You cannot be 100 hard, and you cannot be 100% soft. Its physically impossible.

That being said, every movement you make, from a soft or hard perspective, is variable based on necessity, in combat.

There may be a focus on not fighting force with force. Or a focus on using your strength and pushing through, but nonetheless, at some point you must yield, and at some point you must push back. Thats the nature of combat.

One cannot exist without the other, so the concept of “Soft” styles, and “Hard” styles is, simply put, a ridiculous and incorrect oversimplification aimed at describing a particular focus of a style’s strategy.[/QUOTE]

IMHO,

seriously,

1, Yes, 100% ying and 100 yang exist. ying and yang are mostly mis applied in general. most dont know what is ying and Yang refer to.

2, kang and Rou is misleading to be translated into soft and hard.

3, internal and external are meaningless for most because most dont know what is internal and external. even those who claim to practice internal art often doesnt do internal art.

Thus, most practice today is hard and external by the definition of the ancient Chinese.

Due to these above are not clearly understood.

Thus, today’s TCMA mostly doesnt work. because we all most doesnt know how to read the Operating Manual anymore around the world.

12

not take another’s opinion or judgement as truth. Truth is very personal. As Bruce said, all knowledge is really “self knowledge”. -------

Thus, I have heard from the old timer,

1, Truth are not opinion and personal. in fact, Truth are universal. The problem is most never reach the state. Thus, most speculate.

2, Knowledge is an accumulation which is good for mind speculation. realization or knowing is the soul of spontaneous. two very different things.

So therefore one can conclude that if you are exibiting a so called “yang” quality, that you are capable of exibiting the complimentary quality of “yin” as well. ----

By nature that is true, however,
often one doesnt know how to do a complimentary quality. Thus, the i ching said, Pure Yin will not grown. one can practice pure yin and have no idea about Yang because s/he have never expose to.

Due to all of these are not clear today. Thus, we all mostly are doing some extreme stuffs thinking otherwise.

One of the best example for WCK is the Sam Bai Fut section of SLT/SNT. most of people are doing it in a external hard press muscular way disregard of how they think it is internal or they do it slow…etc. Thus, those doesnt really yield any “internal” result.

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Yin=Soft,Slow,Insubstantial and Passive. -----

Yin is not equal to Rou.

Yin and Rou are refer to different things.

Thus, the Chinese use the term Yin Rou. if they are the same the chinese will only said Yin instead of Yin Rou.

Yang=Hard, Fast, Substantial and Aggressive.-----

Yang and Kang are refer to different things.

Thus, the chinese use the term Yang Kang. if they are the same the chinese will only said Yang instead of Yang Kang.

Further more,
Yin and Yang both can be aggressive.

The aggresive Yin are such like the spiral under flow under the river.

The aggresive Yang are such like the explosion of a bomb.

14

IMHO,

Thus, I have heard,

1, technically,

this modern time issues are

lots of mis-understanding. lots of mind speculation.

lots of intepretation and speculation instead of describe the attainment. Thus, the art is lost because if no one have attained the state no one could teaches.

2,
The humanistic of the art is not emphasis and create lots of mis behave violance or imbalance.

The following are the code of training in Shao Lin when one is going to train the pressure points method. Look at what type of code Shao Lin enforce.

most of us today have violate the code 2, 9 and 10. and Thus, there are those rather bring the art with them when they died.

code number 7 and 8 most modern person could not hold it.

IE: As I have heard, the niece of the famous Dr. Leong Jan, Leong Sim burn about 50 training/teaching manual of Leong family before she passed away.

anyone who is good with english would be doing a great job helping us to translate the following.

15

all i see are squares where the chinese (im guessing) is supposed to be what do i need to download?

16

1, Yes, 100% ying and 100 yang exist. ying and yang are mostly mis applied in general. most dont know what is ying and Yang refer to.

In the context of this thread, I was referring to the literal hardness or softness of the human body. You can throw out the improper use of the terms yin and yang, and in their place put the definitions the original poster specified, to see what I was saying. Where-ever there is movement in the human body, there is always “hardness”, or contraction. Where-ever there is hardness or contraction, theres always softness or relaxation. Its impossible to make your entire body 100% relaxed, or contract absolutely every muscle simultaneously.

1, Truth are not opinion and personal. in fact, Truth are universal. The problem is most never reach the state. Thus, most speculate.

Truth from a human beings perspective is opinion and personal.
Truth is universal only in the sense that what truly is, IS. But a human beings ability to perceive “truth” is limited. Just read about how the human brain works. How memory works. How sight works. What is “truth” to us is a very unstable foundation that can be pulled out from under us, at any time.

Thus, we’re too limited as a species to perceive universal truth.

2, Knowledge is an accumulation which is good for mind speculation. realization or knowing is the soul of spontaneous. two very different things.

Please explain what spontaneity has to do with realization or knowing, or how knowledge is different from knowing. Knowledge is the foundation of understanding. We gain knowledge by our five senses, and derive our realizations and understanding from this.

That being said, I assume english is not your first language (no offense intended at all), so it seems there are things that you’re trying to put into words that don’t make as much sense in their literal translations.

17

In the context of this thread, I was referring to the literal hardness or softness of the human body.

You can throw out the improper use of the terms yin and yang, and in their place put the definitions the original poster specified, to see what I was saying.

Where-ever there is movement in the human body, there is always “hardness”, or contraction. Where-ever there is hardness or contraction, theres always softness or relaxation.

Its impossible to make your entire body 100 relaxed, or contract absolutely every muscle simultaneously. ---------------------

The Kang/Rou or Yin/Yang doesnt required the body to be 100% relaxed. In fact most people mistaken Soong as just relax. Nope that is not the case. if it is about 100% relaxed how come those practice relax only cant evoke their Zhen Qi?

However, saying this, a fact is that those who have advance deep internal skill could reach into a state of “dissolve into emptiness”.

That is a different dimension and level which only those who attained it could know.

It is in this state that using Yee to lead Qi to transport physical body could be implemented.

This state cannot be logical derive from ordinary human physical activity knowledge.

Yes, they exist. That is the state which the WCK kuen kuit said, using silence to lead action.
In western sense, that is the state of ASK and it is already Given. In Chinese, it is said Yee moves and Shen is already there.

Truth from a human beings perspective is opinion and personal.
Truth is universal only in the sense that what truly is, IS. But a human beings ability to perceive “truth” is limited. Just read about how the human brain works. How memory works. How sight works. What is “truth” to us is a very unstable foundation that can be pulled out from under us, at any time.
Thus, we’re too limited as a species to perceive universal truth. --------------------

Thus, I have heard from those who practice or cultivate the awareness path.

If one let go and let God, then the limitation will desolve in an instant thus universal truth can be perceive directly without the inference of mind.

The issue is most human doesnt know there is something beyond mind.

In Zen it is said, the mind is supposed to be slave and the awareness the master. however, human mistaken the mind as the master and awareness as the slave. That is where all the limitation begin.

Can it be do away? yes. the path is simple but the practice is not easy.

Those who attain their level just have to describe what is going on and doesnt do the logical derivation or speculation.

Because it is non dual, no mind, no processing, there is no Me no You, no fear. In Shao Lin, it is called Bu Dong Xing.

.

http://www.shaolin.org.cn/html/html/wu/menu1.htm

Please explain what spontaneity has to do with realization or knowing, or how knowledge is different from knowing.

Knowledge is the foundation of understanding. We gain knowledge by our five senses, and derive our realizations and understanding from this. -------

You are totally right if mind is the only It. however, that is not. In WCK, the Chi Sau is suppose to lead one to open up this level of enlightenment — by passed the mind.

Sponatneity,
realization or knowing is Awareness in action direct.

IE: one doesnt have to pay attention while driving. one can eat, listern to music, talking in the cell phone, but the car is travelling 60miles/hours in a well manage flow without thinking about the driving.

Knowledge, is information which got differentiate and process and store in the mind. and the mind use it as a reference to process something.

IE: those who learn math have the knowledge of 1 + 2 =3. and as how fast can one calculate? that subject to the mind’s condition.

These are different “things” within one. But most of us run by automatic program. thus, we dont know who is the real master and how things process or active.

until one knows what is what one cant by passed mind such as Mas Oyama means in his creation of Kyokushin — ultimate truth by passing mind because mind is too late.

Again, back to the Let Go Let God , No mind. Nothing Fixed, Thus, it said, Comes accept, Goes return it back, let go move forward, using silence to lead action. when thinking involve it is non real time and always one step too late.

That being said, I assume english is not your first language (no offense intended at all),

so it seems there are things that you’re trying to put into words that don’t make as much sense in their literal translations. ------

No offense is taken.

lots of things doesnt make sense even if I write it in Chinese. Lots of things I dont even think it make sense if this is 10 years ago. So be patient if you are interested.

even for me when I was learning these stuffs. It doesnt make sense, until I visit sifus over sifus… and learn to let go my logic a bit at a time.

TCMA is not a sport. it goes much further then that. It is about live itself presented with physical sets and motion. IMHO.

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[QUOTE=Katsu Jin Ken;921583]all i see are squares where the chinese (im guessing) is supposed to be what do i need to download?[/QUOTE]

Those are Chinese writting from ancient Shao Lin Temple. The codes of behavior needed for learning the DEADLY stuffs you are discussing in other thread.

In fact, after one takes these code and vow to hold them . it is useless to learn those Deadly stuffs. It is like teach one all the gambling tricks but one first have to promise never gambling again.

See, all of these are just a trap to lead one to be good. Sure, they have the technology but they know, it is not worthed to use it for real — to hurt anyone including an ant.

Love is the most deadliest weapon. Like Spring time, Love grows and yield positive outcomes without creating enermy who will come back and revenge. and one win it all.

Damo the founder of Shao lin martial art knows about it, Christ knows about it. all the sage knows about it.

One of my story is there was a sifu who have issue with my late sisuk gong. So after decades, I make arrangement intend to visit him to discuss some technical issues, but he thought I was send by my sifu to make him paid. In fact, I am clueless about the past. My late sifu didnt even mention a thing to me. So, what is the point to live like that? when is it going to end with todays this beat that person and tomorrow the other person get others friend to revenge?

19

Yin And Yang

How does the understanding of Yin and Yang relate to Wing Chun?

Does Wing Chun speak of Yin and Yang.

Whats your view point from your personal experience or study or from what you have been taught by way of Sifu?

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How does the understanding of Yin and Yang relate to Wing Chun?
Does Wing Chun speak of Yin and Yang --------

Sure, read those ancient WCK scripture. Plenty of them and they specifically means something.