Yang Style Tai Chi

Nei Jia: the Qigong and Taijiquan Forum Taijiquan and the Internal Martial Arts
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Yang Style

Can anyone tell me about the Modern Yang Style?

Can it be learnt for self defence? or is it only taught for health?

I went to a guy that does massage therapy coz I broke my wrist 1 & a half years ago & it still hadn’t healed fully. He also mixed some herbs into a paste which he put on my wrist. I asked him if I can continue training a hard style & he said I should train a soft style like tai chi till my wrist gets stronger. We were talkn about M.arts & he told me he teaches Modern Yang Style Tai Chi which he learnt in Taiwan & China. I asked him if he teaches the fighting applications & he said he mainly teaches for health but he does know the fighting side.
When he told me he does the modern yang style, I asked him what the difference was of the styles. He said that the other styles repeat a lot of the movements but they all end with the same result. What do u guys think of this?
His english wasn’t too good so a lot of the things he said was hard to understand.

When I asked if he taught the fighting applications he seemed to be a little secretive. Are a lot of tai chi sifus secretive about the fighting applications?

42

Hmm…

There’s so much politics and bs in tai chi that it’s hard to sort anything out :frowning: but if the guy is being secretive then you may want to look around some more before deciding.

It helps to know at least one immediate application for each form when you practice. But once you actually start LEARNING the applications (drills, sparring, etc.) you need to have a partner.

If the guy teaches for health, who’s gonna be your partner?

As for forms, it doesn’t matter too much whether you’re doing the orthodox 108 or just working on each form individually.

The important thing is to reasonably perfect each move so that in all parts of a move you’re perfectly stable, etc.

What the linked form DOES give you is an idea of transitioning smoothly from one move to another. More importantly, it also tells you which moves the Yang masters thought were either particularly useful or needed a lot of work to perfect, because those moves are repeated over and over and over in the 108 forms.

Also of note. Of the three internal styles, tai chi probably depends the most on the ever elusive internal power, and if the teacher doesn’t have the goods, it won’t appear by magic.

Some moves, such as squatting single whip, are awkward and would be too slow to execute in a fight without that internal power to spring you back up.

43

I would recommend go to Tai Chi with martial side.
Me too had an injury and back to train with Tai Chi, but even the sifu was great, most of peole were older than me and I think that doesnt motivates too much a person with martials likes.
Just a thought.

44

Hmmm.

Not sure about the “Modern yang style”, it can mean anything.
He said that he teaches motsly for health benefits but does know the martial side.

Asking him if he is willing to show it to you.

He might teach the healh side to supplement his income or use it as an additional healing therapy, this does not mean that he lacks the fighting aspects and knowledge of it.

I know many Sifu that teach “health orientated” TMA public and teach “martial orientated” TMA on a side basis or only atfer a certain time studying under him.

It all depends on the Sifu, his teaching style and how he chooses his Students.

Many good MA Instructors don’t advertise publicly or make known what they do know.

Cheers.

45

Yes, well taught Yang style can be used for self defence. I’m not entirely sure what you mean by “modern” Yang style though :confused: Yang also tends to be much better for health than other martial art styles.

When I asked if he taught the fighting applications he seemed to be a little secretive. Are a lot of tai chi sifus secretive about the fighting applications?

Some are while some aren’t for various reasons. I think being in good health and building your strength are more important than knowing specific applications for every movement in the early stages of training.

46

If i’m not mistaken, when I hear the term “modern” yang I generally liken it with the standardized forms that are used for competition. This includes the 24,48, and 42 movement hand form in addition to the 32 and 42 sword form.

I personally feel that taiji can be whatever the person wants it to be. If you want it to be for health then you will naturally pick out the health aspects of the teaching. Likewise can be said for the martial or spiritual side. I’m not a fan of having one or the other forced on me. I’ve been to more “martially” orientated schools and I felt that intention of the movements and such really “disharmonized” my mind, so to speak. Same thing goes for the strictly health aspect of teaching, if it’s too caught up in the health side ( i usually liken this with new-agey kinda stuff) then some of the martial concepts that taiji was founded on is lost. Concentration is then focused on health and happiness but what about proper structural alignment and notions of qi and intention (yi). But sometimes if one has trained before then sometimes one can instill the martial side to a health-orientated training.

Kinda interesting how he said that they all come to the same result. Kinda similar to a quote a read in a book: There are many paths to the top of the mountain, but once at the top, we all see the same moon. – Zen Mind, Beginner’s Mind

I’ve heard notions that the traditional sets tend to help in martial training due to the repitions. Kinda like when a boxer want to work on his jab, he does a lot of jabs. I’ve seen the traditional set before and it does have a lot of repititions but this can either be seen as a positive or negative depending on your perspective.

As for being secretive on the martial side of taiji, I think it depends. My previous teacher, who i hold in high regard, new students came and asked about the fighting applications right away he would not talk about it. This type of questioning can give a lot of information on the inquiring student and the teacher can then answer accordingly. Can sometimes be seen as a way of filtering out. I was telling a current friend of mine how when I initially started training in wushu a long time ago, i really liked to fight. But after practicing wushu for sometime with my instructor I didn’t want to fight anymore but strangely, now that I don’t want to fight anymore, I feel that if I were to get into a fight that I could probably do a lot more damage now than before. My friend likened it to a “traditional” saying in that “when the student does not want to fight is he taught how to truly fight” or something along those lines.

good luck with your search. :slight_smile:
A.

47

go for it!!!

hi GA,
Yang Tai Chi Chuan was my first martial art. Now I am doing PM.
At first, it is a great style for health and also self defence. But ,as in every soft CMA style, you need a lot time and effort (more than in other styles) to reach the self defence aspect!!!
But I guess you definatly will benefit from it:

  1. It will help you to be more soft in harder styles
  2. It will teach you to do forms VERY detailed
  3. It will teach you concentration on the technique you do

All these things depend on your teacher. There are a lot crab teachers out there ,so be careful. But if he learned in Taiwan and China ,it should be alright.

GO FOR IT!!!

greets,
TCS

48

Golden Armour,

I can relate. I had a serious bout with Carpal Tunnel Syndrome in both of my hands about a year and a half ago. I read several articles which stated that Yoga or Tai Chi could be helpful in recuperating from repetitive strain injuries. I chose Tai Chi over Yoga because Tai Chi is a martial art (but you need to find a teacher that teaches the martial applications of the art most teachers just teach Tai Chi for health). I used to take Judo and Jujitsu years ago but with the current condition of my hands the risk was too high of making my injuries worse. Well about after a year and a half of taking Tai Chi, my left hand is probably 95% recuperated and my right hand is probably 70% recuperated. I figured it will take longer for my right hand to heal since I’m right handed. I’m glad I chose Tai Chi over surgery
:slight_smile:

49

Yang taichichuan

After seeing many various styles and teachers of yang tai chi chuan such as lineages from Yang jian hao (yang chen fus father) yang pan hao (yang chen fus uncle) and yang shoa hao (yang chen fu older brother) as well as ynag lu chan (founder of yang tai chi chuan) do you think the yang family ought to expand their training cirruculum or at least researcha dn accept these various branches?

50

Not unless the person can be verified as legit and if the style offers something new… most of this stuff is unverifiable(as far as lineage goes) and really doesn’t offer anything different than the mainstream stuff. If they want to research authentic taiji that comes from someone previous to Yang Cheng Fu, then they should just look into the Wu or Chen branches.

51

my training partner and i have been sipping on the tai chi cup for a couple of years now. each of us has of course had some taste of it for many years but here’s my spin.

lineage is unimportant except to those who have that as their focus. The only Tai Chi that realy stands apart from all the other styles is Chen. It is decidedly different in form and expression.

the two Wu styles, Sun and Yang actually have more similarities than differences. But Chen looks more and is expressed more like a NOrthern style of Kungfu.

52

I’m not trying to stir anything up, but I have trained in Wu, Yang and Chen.

I see more similarity between Yang and Chen than Wu and Yang, but having said that I see similarity between all three.

I have also studied northern styles of kung fu and see no similarity whatsoever between the way that Chen taiji is done and northern styles of kung fu. I do see some similarity with the external expression of some of the movements, like single whip.

And not to confuse things too much, while I grasp (I think) the distinction you are trying to make by saying “northern kung fu” all three styles, Wu, Yang and Chen, are technically “northern kung fu” systems, originating from the north of China. I see the distinction you are making as the crusty waijia neijia distinction that starts so many pointless arguments.

To the original question raised, I agree with wht Brad siad, and would add that the Yang family might have their own criteria and motives for structuring their curricullumm as they see fit. History and marketing come to mind.

53

great posts-

I can see how if someone wanted to dig deep into yang style to go into chen style or even wu style of wu jian chien. the other ‘wu’ also called ‘hao’ has no resemblence to yang for me. the wu style of wu jian chien on the other hand is very similar to yang and what yang pan hao and yang shao hao taijiquan may have looked liked and now called ‘small frame’.

personally i am curious of the style known as Imperial Yang taijiquan which looks like an earlier version of wu jian chiens taijiquan. it is suppose to be what yang lu chan was teaching in beijing at the time of his arrival and before it was standardized. the form is called lao jia, (which is same name as first form in chen) it has fajing, jump kicks, and more spiriling energy. there is also a small frame form, big frame form and long fist form.

i am just an observer of the style and see it as a transition phase between chen and the current yang long form much like the guang ping style of taijiquan. there are several people in china teaching this and the dvd’s can be purchased at www.chinafrominside.com if you dare to have a observation in the way i was curious. they also have spear which i am very fond of. yang family doesnt teach spear which alot of taiji school include as power training.

i already chose to study the chen taiji lao jia and pao chui , chen sword and long pole as something closer to the orgin of what yang lu chan may have originally learned. chen taijiquan is very unique and we are fourtunate to have great masters like chen zhen lei, chen xiao wang, wang xian and zhu tien cai to teach annualy in usa.

54

(I’m not sure how to answer that but here goes. Yang Zhenduo is nearly 80 now. He’s been practicing and teaching most of his life.

He teaches what he learned from his father, Yang Chengfu, his ‘uncle’ Yang Zhaopeng (Yang Banhou’s son, who was put in charge of training Yang Zhenji and Yang Zhenduo when they were young), his elder brother Yang Shouzhong, as well as a few of Yang Chengfu’s disciples, and interestingly, his mother.

So as such Yang Zhenduo feels that he has had very rich and unique opportunities to learn his father’s style and his desire is to pass on what he learned. He and Yang Jun are very supportive of other branches of the family, such as Yang Shouzhong, Fu Zhongwen, and his father’s many disciples.

They feel that taijiquan is one big family, and all taiji practice is good practice. Given this unusual and rich background, it does not surprise me at all that Yang Zhenduo and Yang Jun are not shopping around for more knowledge, but more intent on practicing, deepening and passing on what they already have.

You have only to talk to them to understand the profound respect they have for all practitioners and teachers.

Yang Jun has made a special point of instructing us that the website and the Association Journal are not to be used to disparage any teachers or practitioners.

Not only are Yang Zhenduo and Yang Jun supportive of Yang style, they are also respectful and supportive of all other styles, such as Chen, Wu, Wu, Sun, and so on, and have good relations with the representatives of these styles.)

http://www.yangfamilytaichi.com/ubb/Forum4/HTML/000094.html

from the yang family site, some really good thoughts expressed

55

Yang Family Taiji

I am just wandering how many practitioner are out there that practice Yang Family Taiji as passed down by Master Fu Zhong wen? I realize that it only a few ,but if you know of anyone that practice from the late master share your insights

56

You may have seen this before:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2684733084214920600&q=taijiquan+tai+chi+chuan

Pretty good reputation, from what I hear…

57

Yang Style Questions

Hello ,
I was wanting to know if anyone know if the Yang Family have a museum?
Is Yang Chengfu House still standing and can tourist go? I wish there was a Yang Family Training center like what the chen village has.
Thanks

58

its not really a center but YMAA is based on yang taiji and some external styles. they dont really have a center except the one in california where they are having a retreat for 10 yrs where you can sign up to go. ymaa.com

59

I believe Yang Luchan’s house is something of a museum in Yongnian, Hebei China.

I’d be surprised if no one in practising Yang Shi Taijiquan there.

60

Yang Style Tai Chi

Does anyone have a list of the Yang style forms? I know the hand movements go up to 103 movements (knowledge from Wikipedia), however I don’t know if there are other hand forms or weapon forms under the Yang style tree.