not impressed:
http://tsd.ncc.to/m/test.mpg
Why? Because the guy was doing the Linkage set “taiji speed” or because his fighter wasn’t necessarily dominating the contests, but clealy landed some good techniques?
because any good boxer or muay thai fighter would have ownd them and none of the techniques that they practised in their forms or partner drills came out under pressure.
Maybe but maybe not; I didn’t see them fight a boxer or an MT person. And I don’t know the level of the students they showed fighting.
As for the techniques looking like the form, is that ever really the case? Look at any fight involving practitioners of a predominately form based system and tell me that the techniques they use effectively in the fight look the same as the form. Better yet, show me a clip so I’ll know your frame of reference for your criticism.
Go play somewhere else, troll.
Havent you anything better to do? :rolleyes:
Retard.
I just though the video was put together poorly … hard to follow.
Well
That was a rather slow version of Hsing I. I know it’s much faster in a real life situation. And it was hard to follow with all of the added in effects between form and function(?)
peace
You guys should research some before opening your mouths. Many families of Shanxi Xing Yi practice their art at a “Taiji” speed. For instance the Song Family Shanxi I practice is all practiced at a slow, rythmic pace. Any and all can of course be practiced at varied speeds, but for the most part slower than Hebei.
Like the speed or not, the guy was decently solid. I agree it was a bit hard to follow with the effects or what not.
Jake 
exactly, they dont use their techniques but use poor imitations of boxers and kickboxers, becasue that is the natural way humans fight.
Wait, I just read some of your other posts. Now I get why you are apt to post something just to criticize it (which was my problem in the first place). I can go back to ignoring you, but I thought I would give you the benefit of the doubt first.
Jake, I wasnt’ criticizing the speed of the Xingyi, I was just wondering why ROT “wasn’t impressed.” I don’t understand the motivation of someone posting a clip just to criticize it especially when they are essentially incognito and their skills aren’t known.
Jake
I didn’t realize that Shanxi Hsing I is practiced much slower than Hebei. Apologies. Regardless, the guy’s form is solid.
I actually saw some splitting fist in there… when the student is pushing the other guy back from right to left. It doesn’t land solidly, but it takes the space, gets inside position and drives him back.
All in all, the video quality was too poor to really see what was going on, but I wouldn’t call it kick boxing or boxing.
Hopgar and Judges Pen,
No apologies needed. Shanxi is poorly represented over here in the west, so many people think Hebei is the only way Xing Yi is played. I hope to change that mindset.
Jake
Thats the natural way people fight, right…when you cover them in foam padding, put some gloves on them and forbid them to use headbuts, elbows, knees and groin strikes. You can still see xingyi this way, but mostly in movement, not technique. Good luck with your kickboxing training.
Joseph,
Out of curiousity if you really feel that way, then how would you explain the fighting in the first 4 or so UFC’s? There were no time limits, groin strikes were allow, throat strikes were allowed, small joint manipulation was allowed, knees were allowed, elbows were allowed, etc. There were reps from karate, kung fu, and other disciples there and it mostly all looked the same. Do you feel those people weren’t “true” practitioners of their art?
Everybody else,
While I think ROT is trolling, I can see his point. Why practice things in forms when you don’t use it in fighting? I’m sure you could simplify much of TCMA content to make it fighting specific, and yet still maintain the flavor of the style and meditiational/spiritual aspects, but not waste time on things that will be discarded in a live environment.
Hey Ford,
Regarding all the different styles looking the same, they had to, and still do look the same…but looking the same doesnt mean being the same, particulaily with Xingyi or any other “movement based” (principles) MA.
When you apply a move in a fight, a move you train in a certain form for example, the move isnt and most of the times shouldnt look exactly the same. Training it teaches angles, point of contacts, stepping, power generation, etc, things that arent exactly obvious and you can manifest and mix them in infinite ways, not just “exactly the move you would do if your doing a form”.
But you have a point, some things are purely there for…i dont know what for. Should most certainly be discarded.
Ford P, ROT and y’all,
In the Xing Yi I learn, we seek to identify and train the “Jing” aka, rhythm, momentum, feeling, essence of each of the Xing Yi forms.
This is abve and beyond the specifics of the application. This is how internal martial arts are taught. Sure, there are great fighting moves in the forms. But the Jing is primary, and that can be applied to any movement.
Pi Quan is splitting movement. Whether I use a fist, foot, palm, arm, etc, I use the Pi Quan Jing to the best of my ability. As if an axe splitting wood. This can take many shapes, but it needs to be programed into the body as a certain… rhythm is the best word I can think of for it. This can only be felt, and is hard to see on video.
Same with Beng Quan, I can use any part of my body that I want, but the key is to grow and expand, always driving forward, eating my opponents space, relentlessly hitting in the gaps as they open. Again, you can only feel this first hand, it makes no sense from the outside and can indeed look like kickboxing. But the rhythm is different. The end result is the same, hitting someone as many times as necessary.
Pao Quan has an upward rising Jing, fast, easy to change, flickering like a flame, moving swiftly but surely from place to place. Alive and vicious. This is a feeling, a rhythm, a body sense that comes alive when trained the right way. It’s not just a punch to the face, but that is among the possible ways of applying it.
IMO what makes Xing Yi and other IMA special is the mind training, and the training of the Jings that each specializes in. If you don’t have that, then there’s no reason to do Xing Yi beyond any other martial art.
When you meet someone who can really show you how these Jings are applied it will make sense. Until then it’s really useless to argue over.
Bottom line, Xing Yi is not found in the moves you use, but in the way you bring them to life and apply them on someone else.
-Jess O
Joseph,
I understand what you’re saying, but that isn’t the point I was getting across. I know movements aren’t always the same as you practice them. If I were to take you and show you the text-book double-leg takedown, it would most likely look a lot different during competition as it does against an unresisting opponent. I guess I’m talking more about modernizing TMA’s. Widdle away unessentials. Drill technique against bags and mitts, and learn application in two man drills. Fight, fight, fight. Kind of like what the Yi Chuan guy did. I think it’s possible to bring the TMA into modern times while still keeping the integrity of the style.
Rockwood,
I’ve trained in Ba Gua before and am familiar with jing/fa jing. As far as I know the goal isn’t to look like an amateur boxer with poor footwork when fighting, and that is what that guy looked like. Many TMA schools I’ve trained at or checked out look similar. Now is this a problem inherent with the way TMA is being taught or the way it’s being trained? If you want to claim that you don’t look like that sparring, then please post a video. Everybody says that.
Hi Ford,
Unfortunately I can’t watch the vid, my work box sucks, and I have dial up at home. Will try next week when I get back into town.
I think if I looked as good as an amatuer boxer that would be saying something! Those guys have a very high level of skill and athleticism. I only train an hour or two per day, and only spar a few times a month, so I’m nowhere near a golden gloves level.
Pi Quan is grabbing someone by the throat. Beng Quan is punching them in the face. Pao Quan is a fast punch to the chin or body. Tzuan quan is an upper cut. Heng Quan is a hook. But each can be many, many other things as well. So it’s hard to say “That looks like Pi Quan.” It’s much easer to say “That FEELS like Pi Quan”
Xing Yi can look like everyone else. If you try to be fancy and try to LOOK like something in particular, it don’t work too well. My goal is to bring the Jing to life within whatever technique or strike I’m doing. I don’t worry too much about how it ends up looking.
If I use Pi Quan jing I might drive over your guard to hit you in the face. Or I might retreat and try to come up from underneath and grab your neck. Or I might attempt to arm lock you if you grab me. Doesn’t matter what form it takes, the Pi Quan jing (s) is what I’m using, to the best of my ability.
I agree with you that demonstrating or teaching something looks different from using it in a play fight or sparring. The Jing may be the same but its so much faster and harder and sloppier that who can tell what’s what?
All the Xing Yi people I know drill techniques with resisting opponents, spar free style and train the mind exercises and Jings. Some hit pads, I like to, while others stick to hitting people. 
I don’t agree that this is modernizing it though, this is the way it’s always been done by people who want to use it for application.
-Jess O
who were the kung fu guys in the first four UFC’s?