xingyi fighting clip

Here is a fixed Hsing-I clip without all the sparring and music! I couldnt take out all the transitions, but it is still reasonably good!

I could only upload it to my Yahoo Briefcase. It is in a public folder and you will need a Yahoo ID to access it. Yahoo ID’s are free! I don’t know what the allowable download bandwidth is, but I will keep the file available in perpetuity!

It is encoded in Divx 5.2.1 so be sure to get the codec from divx.com if you dont have it.

If there are any other files anyone knows of they want fixed just e-mail where to get it and what you want done and i will be happy to oblige!!

It is still uploading and i need to get to work i will insert the link in a couple of hours!!

Enjoy!!! :wink:

Im not saying people who spar or fight have to looke xactly like the form itself but they shou,ld at least be using the techniques manifested in the forms rather than wild punching and going ape**** because you have too much adrenaline and lack of trianing/sparring to figuare out what to do.

Scott, whats the link to your yahoo profile?

Ok!!! Sorry it didnt get it up right away, but the file was uploading and i had to go to work!! I only get dial-up!!

Here is the link: I think you dont need a Yahoo ID to access it! I’m not sure:

Hsing-I Fixed

Stranger,

Delucia, a 5 animals guy, was in #2 I believe. There was a Wing Chun guy in there and Pa Kua guy as well, but the Pa Kua guy really didn’t look like he knew anything. I think he even mispelled Pa Kua. Haha! There was a big wing chun in one of the early Japan Vale Tudo’s that fought Rickson Gracie. There were others, but that’s all I can think of off the top of my head.

Scott,

Good job with the clip. A question: Do you guys train like that? In the form, he left his punches dangling out there after he threw them instead of moving to retract them right away. I know that this can just be training, but that seems like it might ingrain some bad habits.

Rockwood,

I wasn’t talking about the amateur boxer you’d see in the olympics. I’m talking about going to your local gym and watching random guys fight. The dance around a little a bit and then get into exchanges similar to those seen in this video. You’ll see what I mean when you get access to it.

Hi Ford Prefect,

I don’t know if your question was addressed to me or to anyone in general, but i don’t train in Hsing-I. I just happened to have the software to edit the clip and i wanted one with only the Hsing-I. I figured if I wanted one with out the sparring others would too, so that is why i made it available. I am happy to see was correct! :slight_smile:

Hey Ford,

Are you familiar to xingyi?

no they throw the same punches they do in training; The jab, cross, hook, and uppercut. If they start swinging wildly and turning their whole body with a punch like untrained people do they will either egt their as kicked by the more experienced guy or a good boxing coach wills top them and correct it. By the way other people agree with my assumptions. For example on this thread:
http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24963
the moderator wrote:

So, let me see if I get this right:
Kung fu actually works IF the other guy doesn’t know how to fight AND you get in a wild haymaker.

Cool…

And on this thread:
http://bullshido.net/forums/showthread.php?t=24850&page=4
the same guy wrote:

As usual, if you were to put gi’s on them, you would say they were doinh “karate”, put shorts on them and they would be “kick boxing”, etc, etc…

Xing-i, like taiji and bagua, is a very distinct system, with distinct moves, and while you see the distinctivness in the forms, you don’t see it in sparring or fighting.

hes also been in macao and claims to have seen many kung fu masters fight and they all look the same.

Thanks, ROT… I boxed for years and with a national amateur champion. I wasn’t so bad myself either. I have a pretty good grip of what you see in boxing gyms. Most guys showing poor form will indeed get handled by their opponent or their coach, but nearly everybody does it when they start sparring first and plenty of guys never progress past that stage. Only at mid-level and upper-level amateur bouts do you start seeing a lot more crisp technique and sticking and moving, and see them entirely depart from the instict to stand there and trade shots.

Coming from that live background I’ve always been very skeptical of what a style looks like in that environment. I’ve seen a fair amount of guys use kung fu well in that environment. One of the guys I trained MMA with had trained with a fella named Cartmell for years and used Xing Yi and Ba Gua as his main styles on the feet. It’s not about the style, it’s the training and the man.

Joseph,

Only on a conceptual level. I trained Ba Gua for a bit and ran into Xing Yi guys in training (they were cross-training in Ba Gua) and at seminars. I was never a student of the style although I’ve seen a little bit of it from those sources.

.

Well, if we’re talking about that clip, there’s a lot to be said.

First off, we don’t know where he’s at in the art. We don’t know his experience lever, nor the rules. I some some good things and I saw some bad.

First off, he had a nice agressive attitude (all white guy). I understand why he was plugging away at the head, it’s harder to hurt a well conditioned fighter to the body with a protector on. Furthermore, if it was bare-knuckle, as the art was intended? A few of those straights would have ended it. He also was strong on his feet and reveresed a takedown attempt.

The stuff I didn’t like? Karate kicks, lack of lowline kicks and sweeps to set up throws and controls. Not a lot of angles or good counter-punching.
Xingyi training will teach you how to absorb or avoid a lot of your opponents power.

The fighting looked pretty basic. The thing that really stood out in my mind was a lack of whole body strategy. It wasn’t All weapons. It was punch-kick, re-set or bulling into the opponent rather than taking angles and attacking in the Xingi strategy. Ford has a point about the footwork.

I understand the gloves make it really hard to execute as well.
If you don’t believe me? One of Mr. Cartmell’s students who has full contact experience stated as much.

So you can throw Xingyi “tearing” and Quinna out the window.

As far as the linking form, I think the guy was just going for connection. No fa, just smooth body movement. Depends what he was working on.

I don’t know much about the clip, or the folks in it and I’m not really going to try and judge it too harshly. There’s been some interesting concerns and good points. I would hope you don’t judge the art by one clip.

BTW - R-O-T? Good to see you Enforcer. :rolleyes:

.

It’s not about the style, it’s the training and the man.

One of the sanest and most truthful statements about Martial Arts or
any endeavor period.

but the question is did he use bagua and xingyi footwork, strategy, defense/offense, etc. or was he just fighting like an untrained guy or relied on kickboxing/boxing that he learned since than? I saw a clip on shenwu of Maynard sparring some guy with only fists and gloves and it looked like basic boxing, I only see a jab/cross/hook I didnt see any xingyi punches.

First off, he had a nice agressive attitude (all white guy). I understand why he was plugging away at the head, it’s harder to hurt a well conditioned fighter to the body with a protector on. Furthermore, if it was bare-knuckle, as the art was intended? A few of those straights would have ended it.

That’s not necessairly true Its hard to knock someone out with bare knuckle or gloves and especially with a vertical beng quan fist almost impossible I would think. Boxers have the best ability to knock people out since they train for it yet it takes sometimes 10 rounds for it to happen. And with the gloves no offense or defense gets taken away cause you can use any offensive or defensive move from the style as long as it is a close fisted strike and even a open palm parry/block. I even have a boxing coach that showed me forearm blocks, upward karate style bocks, etc. anything is possible with gloves on imo.

So you can throw Xingyi “tearing” and Quinna out the window.

There was a thread on shenwu where alot if not most people concluded that qin na/jjj/joint locks only work against half resisting or not fully resisting opponents.

That’s not necessairly true Its hard to knock someone out with bare knuckle or gloves and especially with a vertical beng quan fist almost impossible I would think.

Actually, blacktaoist (who used to post on here) had a vid of himself taking someone down pretty quickly using nothing but beng quan.

.

R-O-T,
Let see whtat you can do better.
Everyone from Ford to Rockwood has
analyzed the clip with a fair hand.

What do you have? OOoooooo, I small
the usual anonymous ***gotry…‘’‘’

Put up or shut up Enforcer, be a man.

none of his clips are very impressive, and it didint look like a beng quan but a forward charing attack with fists flying, a beng quan as done in those forms clips is totally different as the other hand has a specific posision relative to the body/head and there is a step into it. Also his san shou clips were decent but the clips with mma gloves were horrible, it seems he fights better with bigger gloves on.

Actually, xingyi fists can have numerous variations depending on the situation. Any reasonably intellegent adult is going to know to adapt. Why keep the hand in a certain spot if there’s no reason to? Doesn’t matter if it’s ugly, as long as it gets the job done :slight_smile: If you want to live in kungfu fantasy land, that’s fine with me though, one less guy out there to worry about :wink:

Good thing I still have room on my ignore list for another wannabe :stuck_out_tongue: This thing’s getting filled up pretty fast though.

Well, though I don’t really like, or usually agree with the troll known as “Reign-Of-Terror” (who used to be known as “Enforcer” 'til he was banned), I do agree that Hsing-I should (even in sparring) LOOK like Hsing-I. The Hsing-I techniques were designed to work with the Hsing-I “Jings”. Same with Bagua (at least as I learned it). When I fight a full contact match with Hsing-I or Bagua, I actually use the postures, footwork and techniques that I practice in my forms. And it works very well. I wasn’t impressed with the “skill” or lack thereof in the sparring clips under discussion either, but I don’t know the skill level of those sparring. They could very well be beginners.

so you actually think those guys would last a minute in an amatuer boxing or muay thai fight?

They might. They are obviously tough and agressive. I doubt they’d win though.

why are there never any clips of masters fighting or sparring? Why are they always newbies or “thats not the real style”…

Couldn’t ell ya’. Maybe the real masters got all their fighting out of their systems when they were “newbies”. I know the reason the association I’m a member of doesn’t post their matches is simply that these are “closed door” matches and conducted solely for training and self development, not public entertainment. I’m no master, but I’d gladly post some clips if I could find anyone who wanted to spar full-contact (who isn’t a looney, a spaz or an azz) in the S.F. Bay area (hel!, even light contact sparring, if they want).