the reason I am looking for a 4th class is I find it hard to train at home.If I go to class I will get 2 hours training in if I’m at home I have to do the cooking the ironing etc as I my wife is at work and she won’t make me bacon sammiches lol
although I have the Lueng Ting SNT poster next to a mirror so I’m getting a little time at that when I can
regards
Peter
PQS
3 times a week with Lee Heron and you want more ? Is he slipping ? <g> This will sound really sad but I used to practice (still do sometimes shush) at work, honest, walking up to push doors, if no ones looking, yield into bong sau, even siu nim tau while on the can ! Seriously though, you can work stance and some other things anytime and 3 classes a week in the first couple of years should give you plenty of training, personally I think about what I did and run through it mentally, it seems to help.
Anyway maybe see you at a seminar one day
Regards
Adrian
Hi Adrian
3 times a week with Lee is hard work, he has now incorporated some Danish WT principles into the class which makes it more physically demanding (but the techniques are still soft) I was just looking fora 4th class because there will be times when I cant do 3, like when there is football to go to, also when I’m at home my wife wants to do strange things like TALK!
I will hopefully be at the next seminar come over and introduce yourself I’ll be the little old guy in the white t shirt.
Lee is a top guy so enthuastic
regards
Peter
A few questions ..
"… he has now incorporated some Danish WT principles into the class which makes it more physically demanding (but the techniques are still soft) … "
Hi PQS, I just have a few questions .. What did he incorporate from the Danish WT? and also I heard that the Danes are very good at WT is this true? and how is their WT different for what is being used in for example England or other countries (to the best of your knowledge)
Regards
WTinfo
Just a little addition
If anyone else of you reading have any knowledge on these questions feel free to answer too.
Regards
WTinfo
A quick reply as I am at work.
There seems to be a lot more pad and bag work also he incorporating chi gung at the end of the class. I can’t really compare it with how it was before as I have only been traing for about 6 weeks. He seems very keen on their methods and very complimentary on their skill level
regards
Peter
Re: 20 years training
Originally posted by AdrianUK
Just a little note from a EWTO member
dummy (no facing the wall as was on one thread!) and with my 5 years training the dummy form would be largely meaningless to me in terms of application.
I might agree with you on the weapon forms but I think the dummy is useful to know (if you have a dummy) earlier on. I am not proficient on the dummy myself (I know a little) and at least in part it is a way of practicing things that are in the other forms - so if you know them why not learn the dummy. As I say I don’t claim vast knowledge so no offence will be taken if anyone puts me right on this.
I train with Kamon
Typical… I’m away from my PC for a week due to work, and miss one of the rare Questions on this forum regarding Kamon Wing Chun. 
As you’d expect, I fully recommed Kevin Chan’s organisation. Like the WT organisation, we have a curriculum, but one that is not as lengthy.
Sifu Chan knows his Wing Chun, has applied it in real life, has also applied its concepts in BJJ tournaments, and is, IMO, a very good teacher. Classes work the basics and have a focus that sounds very much like that found in WSL Lineage (simple, efficient, direct).
The Wing Chun is Yip Man lineage. While Sifu Chan does practise BJJ, this is only taught to higher grades in WC if they have an interest. As Kevin has often said, when he’s fighting in BJJ tournaments, he finds WC concepts, principles and techniques serve him well.
I’m not sure who takes the Kamon class in your region, so I can’t comment on what the class there is like (Staines, right?). But I would say the best way to decide is to get to one of Kevin’s seminars and take a look.
I decided to study with Kamon rather than WT (despite my intro to Wing Chun coming from WT), but there are some very good WT clubs in the UK… it’s really a choice of picking what suits you best. WT is laden down with politics… which is a great shame.
I’m hoping to train with some WT guys close to where I train. Believe it or not, there are some of us here that are more interested in Wing Chun than the politics that surround it.
I hope you find a club you like - whether it’s Kamon or not.
Good luck fella!
AdrianUK
I train in Croydon, Crawley and Horsham, and my one of my instructors (Bill Bostock) teaches at East Grinstead.
Do you know Bill? See him?
I was chatting through email to Alan Sawyer… he also trains in Sussex. We were hoping to meet up sometime and compare forms, have a chat etc.
Where are you based (if you don’t mind me asking)? Wanna come and join the WC/WT party? 
Ultimate Fighter - are you close too? I’ve been training for about a year and half - how long have you guys been in the art?
Duncan
I also train in the WT system and being 41 years old understand the point PQS is trying to make. It does seem to be a long time between learning Chum Kiu (learned after 1 year and Bui Gee (not learned until technician level, 4-5 years). I love the system and think it is very effective. Also I like my Si-Fu and think that his technique is spectacular. But, I am wondering if it is necessary to spend 3-4 years perfecting the material learned in SNT and CK before moving onto BJ or the Wooden Dummy forms. I would be interested in the length of time, or training syllabus’ that other schools have before learning the whole system. A case in point Emin Boeztepe started training in 1976 and trained alot more than I would ever think about, and in 2001 he had not officially learned the entire system. (not a flame to EB, this is a fact he has stated and am only using it here to back up my point).
Don’t think that I am looking for a black belt in a box, and I do understand the difference between learning and mastering. But you sure can’t begin to master something before you learn it. And I’m not trying to flame WT or set up the other WC/VT schools.
WT INFO
the areas where traing has changed is that the training is structured almost circuit training like, ie 20 minuted SNT and footwork 30 minutes techniques, 30 minutes lat sao 20 minuted pad work and 20 minutes chi gung also when learning techniques its 5 reps on each side then the partners go
Gandolf 269
I heard a rumour that the weapons are going to be intriduced earlier in the States have you heard anything about this
regards
Peter
Black & Blue
I think I have seen your instructor, I watched a class in Crawley leisure centre a few months ago, wears glasses ? used to teach at the King center in east grinstead ? I do know Alan Sawyer, I train in the same classes as him in fact, hes a top guy though very modest with it. I think I could be up for some extra training, maybe even a couple of others from the same classes as well. I am based in Reigate but travel to Crawley and East Grinstead for classes, so yeah if you organise something with Al I could be in it
Thanks
Adrian
AdrianUK
Hi - yes, that’s the chap… glasses… doesn’t really look like a Wing Chunner (whatever we’re supposed to look like ).
He’s been training WC for 11 or so years (I think he started out in Jeet Kune Do originally). I may well have been at the class you saw as I try to get to Crawley as often as possible. I’m 5’ 10’', brown hair, slim, probably the chap getting punched in the face!
Would be good to get together sometime and babble about Wing Chun and stuff. Alan sounds like a nice guy… he seems kinda busy these days, so I’m hoping his schedule will free up soon and then we can put on our pj’s (as it were) and you can all witness my dubious Chi Sau
Just remember, as you guys are laughing… I’m stealing all your WT secrets 
In particular, I’m interested to see some of your WT Chi Sau sections (if you chaps don’t mind showing).
Duncan
PQS,
I read somewhere that EBMAS is going to start training weapons earlier, but I don’t know this first hand so I may be (unintentionally) spreading rumors. My Si-Fu stayed with the IWTA-NA and his Sifu Leung Ting. The Leung Ting organization isn’t changing the curricullum (at least not that I’ve heard).
Scuba Steve,
First, I didn’t take your post as WT-slamming, just some “to the point” observations/facts/questions. Is it true that HK WT clubs don’t do lat sau?
I think that the lat sau programs are effective for what they are intended for. Which is to teach you how to apply the techniques you have learned, in a controlled environment. Is it effective? Yeah! It teaches you not only applications of the hands and feet, but also you learn early on that the WT/WC/VT principles will work in your favor if you use them (ie - that you can stand toe to toe, while someone bombards you with punches and that you won’t get hit as long as you maintain the centerline). Is it more effective than other drills used by other schools? I don’t know, but I would guess probably not. They’re just a different way to hammer a point into your head (no pun intended). After you’ve learned several different Lat Sau programs, you start throwing them all together and it ends up being, what I think of as, controlled sparring (if there is such a thing). I did this last night with the senior sihing in my class for 10 minutes (seemed like an hour) and it was very educational, if you catch my drift. Didn’t get my ars kicked, but thank God he has the control he does, or I would of ended up flat out a couple of times Lat Sau is not real sparring or fighting, but a drill to help you in the application of Wing Chun.
just passing by
Well seing that we are all crazed vikings here in Denmark there is a lot of physical training going on. apart from your standard technic training, we also do a lot of lat sao, circle training and various other forms of sparring.
I think one of the reasons why there is so much conditioning here, is that a lot of the mid+ level students and instructors in the WT center (Scandinavian HQ) are bouncers or ex fighters from various other martial arts. They have kinda brought back the toughness which in my view was lacking a few years back.
As for the standard of the danish WT, I believe its pretty high. We are fortunate to have some very dedicated top instructors who are able to pursue WT as a career.
At the same time there is a lot done about educating the new instructors. That means you need to reach a good theoretical as well as practical skill level before you are let loose on your students.
Last but not least, if you live around copenhagen, you will be able to train daily from morning to evening in the WT center. That in it self will off cause produce some very good practicioners.
Well enough promoting
Good night and happy training
Hey Jesper,
are you Pere Hansen’s si-hing? He moved to LA about 4 years ago, used to do escrima tournaments a bunch in Denmark? If so he’s heading back to Denmark in a month or so, and was looking to catch up with you.
If yes to the above, we have some friends from Finland in common, too.
To me, Denmark is perhaps the best example of how to teach, train, and grow a WT organization. Y’all have done a lot of things very right.
Later,
Andrew