Wong Long Poems Translation And Examples

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Northern Praying Mantis
1

Hello all…

I was wondering is there anyone out there that can give a discription of each style and a example of technique…

one thing I myself was never into was the research of the system but with the great contributions of the shifus here and on the mailing list have made me quite curious…

  1. the long fist technique of Tai-Cho
  2. Followed by the Tung Pi style of Han Tung
  3. Still better with the twisting locking techniques of Tzen Un
  4. The short fist technique of Un Yian is remarkable
  5. The Short range striking technique of Ma Chi is extraordinare
  6. The monkey style of Sun Tan is also popular
  7. The body leaning techniques of Wang Tien is hard to get near
  8. The swift flying face palm techniques of Mian She
  9. The Knocking hands technique of Chin Siang can pass through fist
  10. The rigid collapsing throwing strokes of Wai Tek
  11. The Hook, Embrace, Plucking technique of Liu Sing
  12. The rolling sneaking technique of Tain Fang pierce the ear
  13. The Grabbing throwing techniques of Ian Ching
  14. The Mandarin Duck Kick of Lin Chung is great
  15. The seven continuous fist techniques of Meng Sen
  16. The belly cutting punch technique of Chun Lian
  17. The pole plucking technique of Yang Kun pierce straight in
  18. The Praying Mantis technique of Wang Lang covers all
    >>

Thanks to Roch7starmantis for the poem…

2

In the Praying Mantis Boxing Manual (Tanglang Quanpu) recorded the late 1700s, the unknown author provides a list of masters and styles of boxing that abbot Fu Ju invited to the monastery:

  1. In the beginning there was “Long-range Boxing” (Chang Quan) style of emperor Tai Zu.

  2. “Through the Back” (Tongbei) boxing of Master Han Tong’s considered parental.

  3. Hand technique “Rap Around and Seal” (Chan Feng) of Master Zhang En is especially profound.

  4. “Close-range Strikes” (Duanda) boxing of Master Ma Ji is the most remarkable.

  5. It is impossible to come close to Master Huang You who knows the “Close Range Hand Techniques” (Kao Shou).

  6. The technique “Blocking Hands and Following Trough Fist” (Keshou Tongquan) of Master Jin Xiang;.

7.The hand techniques of “Hooking, Scooping and Grabbing Hands” (Gou Lou Cai Shou) of Master Liu Xing.

8.The “Methods of Sticking, Grabbing, and Falling” (Zhanna Diefa) of Master Yan Qing.

  1. The “Short Boxing”(Duan Quan) of Master Wen Yuan is the most extraordinary.

  2. The style “Monkey Boxing” (Hou Quan) of Master Sun Heng is also flourishing.

11.The “Cotton Fist”(Mien Quan) techniques of Master Mien Shen is lightning fast.

  1. The “Throwing-Grabbing and Hard Crashing” (Shuailue Yingbeng) techniques by Master Huai De.

13.The technique of “Ducking, Leaking and Passing through the Ears” (Gunlou Guaner) of Master Tan Fang.

  1. The strongest leg kicking technique is "Mandarin ducks kick " (Yuanyang Jiao) of Master Lin Chong.

15.The “Seven Postures of Continuous Fist Strikes” (Qishi Lianquan) techniques by Master Meng Su.

  1. “Hand Binding and Grabbing” (Kunlu Zhenru) techniques of Master Yang Gun attack instantly.

17.The techniques of “Explosive Strikes into the Hollow Parts of the Body” (Woli Paochui) by Master Cui Lian.

  1. “Praying Mantis” (Tanglang) boxing of Master Wang Lang absorbed and equalized all previous techniques.

One of the Shaolin monastery books provides the same list and ends it with the concluding passage, “All these were gathered and brought together by Chan (Zen) Master Fu Ju from Shaolin monastery.”

 Taken from Ilya Profatilov's web site: <a href="http://ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu/~iprofati/home.html">http://ezinfo.ucs.indiana.edu/~iprofati/home.html</a>
3

Now can anyone break that down and tell us where each number appears in which form. If you can do that, you know your mantis pretty well. Let me do some research. I got one

#12 from the first list and #13 from the second

“Rolling and Leaking”

This appears in essential #3 before you do the first groin kick and jump back. It’s about 5 movements before the groin kick.

4

#14, the Mandarin Duck Kick of Lin Chong…
Would this be the same “Lin Chong” from Outlaws of the Marsh?

#15, Chut Sing Ling Kuen…
Is this the 7 stars fist (7 main targets on the body?)

Thanks.

5

Author: Huang Kai Vun
Date: 5-01-2000

This is a flat-out terrible exchange . . . and a waste of all the time we (I included) should be spending practicing.

Author: Dr. Joyce Brothers
Date: 4-20-2000

Dear Mr. Word,
I’ve been monitoring your posts for some time now. I sense alot of pain and hostility in your life. Your preoccupation with Wing Lam is unnatural and unhealthy. You are also guilty of projecting your own inadequacies onto others. In my professional opinion you are in dire need of psychiatric help. Please send me an email to schedule an appointment, before it’s too late.
Sincerely,
Dr. Joyce Brothers

Topic: One Reason Why Wing Lam sucks
Author: word
Date: 4-18-2000
In his hung gar tape he explained many many incorrect applications. Here is one example. Both are in a right front stance. Enemy throws a right punch. Wing does an outside block with his left hand and follows with a right punch. (So far so good) The enemy blocks Wing’s right punch with an inside left block. (so far so good) THEN WING feels the contact of his enemy’s block and pulls back his right punch and punches again with the right hand. This is like a simple punch , pull back and punch again. THAT IS WHERE HE WENT WRONG! Instead of pulling back his right punch and punching again, Wing should have , when the enemy blocked his right hand, bent his right arm ( looks like an elbow attack but it’s not) and shuffled in. Now Wing would have had control and would be able to deliver a quick right backfist. In kung fu we have a saying " You follow where ever the wind blows." Since Wing was punching with his right hand and the enemy was doing a left inside block, Wing should have went " with the wind" and shuffled in, bent the elbow and did a right backfist. Now I know many of you reading this post don’t know the application that I am talking about because you haevnt’ learned it. But- you should try it with a friend, it’s a beautifully put together application that WING messed up on. Any comments?

Author: illusionfist
Date: 4-18-2000

That’s just one interpretation of the application. When it comes down to it, there can be INFINITE amounts of application to a technique or series of techniques.
Personal style comes into play as well. Different strokes for different folks.
Enough about Wing Lam already!!!

Author: word
Date: 4-18-2000

Yeah but Wing’s application was fuccked up.

Author: Brett Again
Date: 4-18-2000

I suggest you travel to California, find Wing Lam, kick his ass, and then shut the f*ck up already.

Of course, that’s just my opinon… I could be wrong.

Author: Ng Shifu
Date: 4-20-2000

I am reluctant to speak on this for I was taught that he who speaks does not know & he who knows does not speak. I however feel that my being a teacher by nature requires me to educate.
It is said that to be a real man and a leader you must be
Upright Magnanimous Harmonious & Calm
I have met Sifu Lam and he exibits these qualities along with a genuine concern for his fellow man.
Do you?
Over the Past 20 years I have traveled throughout North America and to Taiwan and have met literally thousands of martial artists from hundreds of styles. For those who may be swayed by the rantings of Mr. Word, let me say that Sifu Lam is a good and Genuine Sifu who is not only knowlegable and well skilled but also a good person.
Mr. word I am sorry that you carry such demons with you that you feel you must anonymously issue unwarranted attacks against Such people as Sifu Lam and the Members of Doo’s Family Bak Fu Pai. Might I suggest you look to whatever religion it is that you have chosen for yourself…Look deep inside and fight this demon for no good can come of it and it can cause you personal frustration and pain. It is only when we master ouselves and destroy our own ego that we can even begin to look at others.

With humble respect,

Ng Shifu

Author: word
Date: 4-20-2000

NG,
YOu are sad. You said that you met tons of masters thorughout the world. The fact that you think wing lam is good makes you look sad. I feel bad for you. SInce you think wing is good, that means all the other masters you have met suck also. You wasted a lot of your time and still havent’ found the true meaning of kung fu.

Author: olkat 314
Date: 4-20-2000

Word:
I don’t know who Ng Sifu is, but at least he’s trying to respect you. This whole forum hates your guts, and here’s one guy that is trying to politely take a neutral stance and speak to you. And all you do is turn around and disrespect him. This I don’t understand. You must be either looking for attention or just plain dense. Either way, it’s a sign of pitiful immaturity.
Word – to harbor your own particular feelings towards a distinguished Sifu is fine, but to publicly disgrace him is another. I don’t know what school of kung fu you practice under, or who your sifu is, but you are disgracing all of them. This is exactly why the traditional masters had huge ceremonies and required hard labor before accepting students, because they wanted to convey respect for teachers and for the art.
You bring shame unto yourself and your art. You’re an immature kid that thinks he knows it all. You might think that kung fu and its practitioners are all a joke, but for everybody else that has put long hours into this and live kung fu, you are a disgrace.
May you learn your lesson one day.
Ng Sifu – please accept my apology for Word. He’s just not mature enough to accept his wrong.
Yours
Tak

Author: word
Date: 4-20-2000

I know that I am rude but someone has to speak the truth. Odds are all of your sifus that you guys learn from on this board suck also.

Author: HappyPuppy
Date:4-20-2000

So, what? You think you’re an angel of truth and goodness. The last hope for Kung-Fu?
Bwahahahahahahahahahaha.
If you think Wing Lam s u c k s so much, just find him, and challenge him. Nobody cares about your views on Wing Lam. Oh, and do you think you’re ‘swaying’ anyone on this board by d i s s i n g their sifus, and saying how much they s u c k?
Hmmmm.
Maybe if you want to get some positive feedback, you could NOT I N S U L T PEOPLE!!! OH MY G O D!!! WHAT AN IDEA!!!

GRRRRRRRRRRRRR
WOOFWOOFWOOFWOOF

Author: GingerFist
Date: 4-30-2000

Hey word, why don’t you send me $4 and I will think about it. By the way, how old are you?
Word, I don’t want to say that your sifu sucks because I have never met him, but obviously he forgot to teach you about good martial etiquette! Maybe that’s because you don’t have a sifu? Is that why you asked Jimbo to send you a tape of him doing the five wheel… form on another post? If you and your sifu are such bad asses, then why are you asking for someone to video tape themselves and send it to you? …Questions to ponder…
I have seen a lot of Wingsters videos. The reason he is showing such simple technique is becuse he is assuming that the majority of the public are beginers. You are not going to show and advanced technique to someone who just started yesterday are you?
Lam’s techniques are not going to be all flashy and wu shu like because he is going to want to appeal to everyone. What do you want him to do, chi you out the door through your television set?
Just as illusion said, there are an infinite number of applications for just one technique. Lam sifu is obviously going to choose the most basic application to demonstrate. Have you forgoten your basics? Remember, the videos are meant to be used as a learning tool, not some demo to show off to the world his “godly” knowledge.
There are somethings that you just don’t reveal. I am sure that if you were to ask your sifu, he would tell you that there are somethings that you just don’t reveal to the general public. That you would have to prove yourself as an honorable and loyal student. And you might even have to be a close door student to learn everything.
Hey word, since you are such a bad ass, why don’t you just post your video on the forum and let all of us judge you, just as you have judged Lam sifu. Hey everyone, maybe we should all just break down and send word the $4 so he can buy a ticket to San Fran and go and challenge Lam sifu.
Lohan, if you have $74.95 + 10% for shipping and handeling, Wing Lam interprises has a very nice kwan dao that you can buy. And if you like, you can go online at www.wle.com and order it. Or you can call them at 1-800-700-3698. Good luck, it is the cheapest place that I have found so far. Oh, maybe word’s sifu can hook you up with a better deal…
Hey word, why don’t you quit acting like you are five years old and your mommy won’t buy you your Buff Bagwell action figure. Just grow up, learn to wipe your own nose, quit wetting your bed and just admit that you aren’t some Grand Master of bullshit fu. Maybe if you put your energies into your martial training and proper martial etiquette, and turn off your Wingster videos, maybe you could be just as good as Lam sifu. Here is a novel idea, quit giving yourself an ulcer over how bad Lam sifu is and how you are such a god above us all, and just go and work out for about twelve hours a day.
Chill out man!

6

I suppose MIA was trying to warn us. Thanks!

Anyway, you made a good point, Paul; Lin Chong was a character in the “Shui Hu Zhuan” (‘Water Margin’ or ‘Outlaws of the Marsh’ by Shi Nai-An). The novel’s time line was set during the Ming Dynasty. On the other hand, most Tang Lang Quan practitioners pinpoint Wang Lang to have lived between the late Ming (1368-1644 AD) and early Qing (1644-1911 AD) dynasties. Who knows if Wang Lang and Lin Chong ever met? Most Chinese martial art styles often subscribe names of famous figures in Chinese history to give credibility to their art. In any case, I would not read too much into the ‘18 Styles List.’

As Robert W. Smith wrote in ‘Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts’:

"Currently there are at least four
shortcomings in Chinese boxing:

(1) Some excellent methods have died because of the fetish of secrecy.
(2) Some systems have been diluted by modifications.
(3) Some contemporary types have borrowed the names of earlier types.
(4) Some current methods are gymnastic rather than fighting in function.

7

I dont know if this is the same Lin Chong. The novel took place in the Song Dynasty (correct me if I’m wrong), and it was written in the beginning of the Ming Dynasty. This puts Wang Lang and Lin Chong about 500 years apart. It could be that Lin Chong’s techniques were so famous that they were carried on by kung fu masters, and then later picked up by Wang Lang.

Can anyone give a definate yes or no to this?

8

What saddens me the most is that this post started out as a legitimate question from Mantis7, and ended up being taken over by Word and those who were moved to respond by him/her.

I too have been guilty of being sucked into conversations with individuals on these boards, who I felt were disrespectful, ignorat or just plain beligerent. All this seems to do is fuel their agression and hostility towards me and others, and gives them more ammunition to utilize in future posts.

I realize what is being said is offensive to some of you. I realize what has been said is dishonorable. to be honest, that bold blanket statemet about all our sifus sucking being posted…

I dont know what any of that post MIA made was supposed to mean, but It had nothing to do really with the question at hand… If it was intended to attack words credibility, word can do that all by himself.

I know who my sifu is and I know his abilities. The rest of you may not, but its really not important.

And an attack on someones character does not correct itself by responding in kind.

please consider simply ignoring things like this in the future. It will lower your blood pressure and keep the junk posts to a minimum.

Thanks.

Namaste.

9

All,
Word has nothing good to say about anyone, he is unable to back up that he even trains in Martial Arts at all. Unfortunatly he has a little to much time on his/her hands, and instead of spending it at a gym, he spends it on the computer irritating legit people with interesting things to share with one another.
If the moderators don’t control this by deleting his post or blocking his email account from be able to register, all we can do is ignore what he has to say.
I also have found myself falling for this garbage, but I will not anymore.
RochSevenStarMantis

10

Hi All,

This thread so far has a few dynamics going. Thank you, Mantis7, for a wonderful topic. I will attempt to address these dynamics as best I can.

About the poem:

  1. The author of the poem is unknown.

  2. There are a few versions and interpretations in different language(s?) of it exist.

  3. It seems to be written in the style of Ming General Chik’s “Kuen Ching”. Chen style Taijiquan’s birth place, Chen’s Village, has literature written in the similar style.

  4. Some celeberties mentioned might be fictional, but the styles are mostly in exist.

IMHO: Interesting read but like Gen I would not focus too much on it. The main message is that Josi Wong Long did cross train. The result - Praying Mantis Kung Fu.

Side note: The order of the listed arts seems to suggest a chornical order of Josi Wong’s his Kung Fu Journey.

About Word:

Compassion about his misfortune on his journey. Perphas he/she is lacking in social skills but some of the points he/she made shows intense desire to acquire the truth (mostly on techniques though). A word of advise, if you don’t mind, the truth about Kung Fu is that it is the inner most feeling of the artist about reality. Please consider and respect that before interacting with other artist(s). Your logic may be ecsentric at times but I believe you mean no harm.

About some comments

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR>As Robert W. Smith wrote in ‘Comprehensive Asian Fighting Arts’:

"Currently there are at least four
shortcomings in Chinese boxing:

(1) Some excellent methods have died because of the fetish of secrecy.
(2) Some systems have been diluted by modifications.
(3) Some contemporary types have borrowed the names of earlier types.
(4) Some current methods are gymnastic rather than fighting in function.[/quote]

Thanks Roch,

They seem quite negative and depressing about CMA in general. I think the spirit of the poem is the remedy to these points. Imagine that Josi Wong never grown out of a stlye, we could never enjoy Praying Mantis today.

Just a thought.

Peace to all,

Mantis108

P.S. Taijimantis, good points.

Contraria Sunt Complementa

11

Roach,

I have nothing good to say about anyone? Have you not seen my list of sifus who actually know what they’re doing?

Adam Hsu
Kenneth Chung
Chan Poi
Ben Derr
Chung k Chow
Raymond Wong (myjong lohan)

and a few others.

Roach , get your facts straight.

ANYWAYS,

I did not ruin this post. I think it’s a wonderful post and really challenging. I put in my input on the " rolling and leaking palm." Anyone else ?

12

Roach,

I have nothing good to say about anyone? Have you not seen my list of sifus who actually know what they’re doing?

Adam Hsu ( pachi, pa kua)
Kenneth Chung ( wing chun)
Chan Poi (wah lum mantis)
Ben Derr (wing chun)
Gin Foon Mark (s. mantis)
Raymond Wong (myjong lohan)

and a few others.

Roach , get your facts straight.

ANYWAYS,

I did not ruin this post. I think it’s a wonderful post and really challenging. I put in my input on the " rolling and leaking palm." Anyone else ?

13

Well back to the subject…

Can anyone tell me the history of the styles or the techniques that come from the individual sets…
Especially this ((The rolling sneaking technique of Tain Fang pierce the ear))
((The Mandarin Duck Kick of Lin Chung is great))
((The belly cutting punch technique of Chun Lian))
I want to know were these complete systems or just techniquies favored by the person mentioned,

Lets try to keep this post going no flaming or trolling…
Word thank you for your input…everyone lets keep this straight fact and theory..

we all have diffrent personalities and have our own opinions and lets keep it like that but off of this post…

Word I respect your views and your opinons of who you think is great and not so great and you are entitled to them the same way we are all entitled to tell you to keep them to yourself…We do not have the right to offend you and same goes for you lets keep this pleseant and intelectual…

WORD…

thanks for the leaking palm theory…how are those movements connected to 13 and 14.. please explain… Do you have info on said martial styles presented in the poem…

Thanks to all in advanced…

Victor

14

Gee, how is anyone to realize the inner working of the system is people getting into this name calling business.

Anyway I have have SEEN at least at least 80 percent of the hand 110 forms of the system (Chiu Leun Sect). I will say with some authority that the poem in question is very important and is one of a MANY ways to embrace the 7 Star Mantis.

You do so by breaking down the forms into movement phrases along the lines of the poem. Then list all the movement you have found and find the correct names for each movement. Then, try to understand the flow and breathing done with that movement chain, keeping in mind the tempo of the poem’s feeling for the particlar movement in question.

Then find the linking moves to other movements in the forms. Not to give to much any, remeber something can only be practiced alone to a point.

Nathan

If you don’t believe even me ask Chiu Leun (will see on Sat for bunch with Carl, Stephen and Gui Yu}, Lee Kam Wing, Carl Albright, Su Yu-Chang, or Raymond Fogg. All of whom know me, but some of them may not want to talk abou this subject?

Nathan

15

Sounds like Indiana Jones decoding the ‘Treasure Island’ map.

16

The understanding I got from Master James Sun was that the above mentioned techniques were the specialty moves or theories that set each of the 17 styles apart. Of course no one really knows 100 percent about Master Wong’s personal life, but Master Sun’s take on it was that the Masters of the 17 styles all taught Wong Long the best things of their system from when he was a child. From this base of knowlege he created Praying Mantis, which is why it could absorb all the others.

There is more about this in an Interview I did with Master Sun that I’ll send out soon.(just need some cool pics)

[This message has been edited by 8stepsifu (edited 08-30-2000).]

[This message has been edited by 8stepsifu (edited 08-30-2000).]

17

Nice take on it 8stepshifu… But I wonder there has got to be more than that to it.. from what I have been told many things have been hiden in poems down through the ages.. I just wonder what is the key to open wong long’s door… maybe a treasure or maybe a mirror showing us that we already have the treasure but didnt know it lol

Victor

18

No doubt Mantis7,
Its just a matter of time till our understanding of Mantis gets to that point. By that time, there will be 10,000 more questions ahead of us…sigh…thats kung fu for ya.

19

Hey 8stepshifu

IF you would like to further have conversations my email address is vincenight316@aol.com.. even though we do not see eye to eye on things we can both learn from our seperate experiences…
plus if everyone always seen eye to eye things in this world it would be peaceful but boring as all hell..

Victor