Jutsow
After I’ve put myself on anti-depressants and finished my anger management counseling program to correct my self-esteem and character issues, will that mean I can beat CLF practitioners?
“Learning without thought is labour lost; thought without learning is perilous.” – Confucious
watchman
i dont want to put you in remision but no, you still couldnt beat a choy lay fut man using wing chun techniques.of course there are exceptions to every rule. im sure somewhere sometime a wc guy has gotten lucky and beaten a clf guy. i mean hey, the sun even shines on a dogs ass somedays.
old jong
i dont hate wc guys, i just pity you. it saddens me greatly to see people waste their time and effort on a useless “martial art”. you would be better of taking tae-bo or even[gasp]kenpo/kempo.
no offense 
jutsow
you’re just a sad little fellow lacking self-confidence - that’s why you’re hiding behind a style. if you think wing chun doesn’t work, go challenge some guy from that style and see for yourself.
Winnipeg Dragon, you just need to shift your perspective. While the stances done by Neil and by people such as Paul Chan and Li Siu Hung are deep, other lineages use a higher stance. Indeed, I have heard that the Chan Family lineage in Australia uses a very high horse stance, not disimilar to a shorthand goatriding stance.
Indeed, some sources suggest that in the mid Qing Dynasty the horse stance fell from usage in southern styles, replaced by the goat riding stance, only switching back towards the end of the 19th century. Personally, I like deep stances, but others don’t.
Alternatively, you could add wing chun moves into the CLF. For example the Lee Hin lineage that you study contains a variety of shorthand type moves (look at green dragon fist for an example)and indeed is sometimes referred to as shorthand CLF.
Jutsow, I used to think that WC guys had a superiority complex, until I heard you. WC is by no means useless. It’s not my personal favourite, but not everyone likes going down so low your thighs scream at you and then spinning your arms so fast that the blood supply to your hands is affected.
I mean honestly, who is your sifu?
“Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice”
Lao Tzu
I’ve never trained in either WC or CLF, but it seems to me that you could learn two systems with widely different philosophies and still get something out of it without compromising the integrity of either.
Matter of fact, wouldn’t that give you a broader experience in fighting techniques and so give you a better arsenal of weapons to use in a fight?
From what I understand of the two styles, WC would give you a good foundation in short range fighting while CLF would give you better tools in the long range. Broad generalisations, I know, but that is how I see it.
Guns don’t kill people, I kill people
Jutsow.
We don’t need your pity!..I still believe that there is a reason for your dislike of something that should not be bothering you…Unless it is fear!
No offense.
C’est la vie!
winipeg dragon, you stated characteristics of wing chun and choy li fut, and said that to train in both would be losing the essence of each art(or something ridiculous like that, it’s not important)What you described were also the techniques of the snake and crane, and the 5 elements, and leopard techniques of Hung Ga’s 5 animals which happen to blend harmoniously with one another.I also have studied wing chun as well as Hung Sing Choy Li Fut, and you would be surprised at how well these two opposite styles blend. They are specializations, developed by different masters who prefered specific methodologies, and developed into separste styles.But they were in fact once part of the same system-siu-lum kuen.
short range long range choi li fut
one thing you have to remember, is how big is a cirlce??
true it isn’t a straight line, but who is to say when one does a gwa,sao,bin,pek choi’s or even lema gwa sao, that the circle has to be large.
one of the best misconception of choi li fut (and of coarse i speak from buk sing) is the idea that choi li fut fight with large circles.
then you have chap choi (hung kuen call it pau choi). you have tao lao, ping, yum , fei chap, just to name a few, all these can be done with minimal circling and some with straight line or grinding usage, so here there is much variation.
moebius
regarding the names of the five from each style.
i am more than sure you can find the names on a reputable site of either buk sing/hung sing or wing chun on the names of the fighters.
i see no need to put them up here, unfortunatly when someone puts a name up, without ill intent, there is a usual barage of disrespect from some idiot(s), and i see no reason why these men could/may be insulted this way.
unfortunate side effect of such a forum concept.
in regards to the final fight that was to stop the situation, it never eventuated.
what was starting to happen on a regular basis was that the organised fights where being overrun by fighting becoming common in the streets, in other words not controled and organised, ( not being hidden from the british authorities)
with the british influence obvious in hong kong at the time, the concern from the community was the reaction that could happen because of this situation that was getting out of hand.
there is some conjecture on what actually caused the final fight to come to the notice of the british authorities, but either way it was plastered all over the hong kong papers, and that was the end of that.
i will say though, some of the five players from each side are still well known today (hint hint)
Ben Gash
You said:
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> Indeed, I have heard that the Chan Family lineage in Australia uses a very high horse stance, not disimilar to a shorthand goatriding stance. [/quote]
Where did you hear that from? As a Chan family CLF practisioner, I think I have some knowledge on this matter, and I can say that we don’t use any particularly high stances.
http://www.choyleefut.com.au/images/sifu_pol.jpg
there’s one example.
You can find more pictures in www.clfma.com and www.choyleefut.com.au
Shorthand CLF
We don’t like to use the term, but advanced students do learn ‘shorthand’ CLF. That is from the Lee Hin lineage, basically.
The reason the term is not used is that ‘traditional’ CLF practitioners refuse to accept it is a valid form of CLF. Our basis is pure CLF, but advanced students have the option to expand into Lee Hin should they desire.
Of course, our Sifu could also instruct in Kenpo, Hung Gar and a few other styles if he chose. Advanced students in our Kwoon can draw on all of his experience…
I said to her, “For you who are so old but forever young I have many questions.”
She said to me, “And I have but one answer - you must be a silhouette of the dragon against the moon.”
Premier, just one of those things you hear, and not totally accurate as it turns out. That’s certainly orthodox longarm stancework, although I would say the stances aren’t as deep as my own or those of Winnipeg Dragon’s Sifu.
Winnipeg Dragon, keep your hair on. Neil never used to mind.
“Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice”
Lao Tzu
Don’t mind Jutsow and his style bashing.. he shouldn’t be talking like that. He studies Chung Moo Do :eek: :rolleyes:
Peace
Daryl
terms
winniepeg, i don’t understand what you mean by “traditionalist”, don’t use the term - short hand.
the elders and seniors that i have spoken to, talk of “bringing in” all the time, it has always been part of conversation.
Tu Han Chang,Kong Hing, Chan Nin Pak, Ho Ngau, to name but a few, taught these concepts, and to say they refuse to accept it as a valid form of the kuen is interesting.
these players are both buk sing and hung sing, oh and there basis is also “pure” choi li fut.
Good day.
Hey bean curd, how goes?
I would agree with bean curd..I am a Bak Hsing player and there is only a distinction between short hand and long hand based on the stage of one’s game.
As a new student learns the basic techniques, long arm is emphasised as it is a natural physical tendency to shorten one’s movement. This is not to say that is bad, it is just not what is best for the student at that time. To derive maximal power, one needs maximal range of movement. Once this sense has been developed to a competent level, then short arm movements can be trained without (besides the ever constant correction and reminder) fear of minimalizing form and power for speed or quickness. “Extra inch. Extra power”
Ultimately, the dynamic exchange between you and your opponent will direct what occurs during any given exchange. If your level of exchange is limited by your practise and training methods, then your exchange will always fall 50% short of what might or could and should be.
Regardless, most of our long arm techniques are executed close-in. They are mixed long or short depending on a given exchange- really, my opponent will dictate what I end up doing.
Train hard, and smart.
nospam, how’s it all going.
you must be heading towards “thong time” up your way.
great to hear from you.
Long/Short
BeanCurd, I don’t claim to speak for anyone other than myself, first of all, but to my knowledge, there is an accepted lineage of ‘Chan Family’ CLF. Again, to my knowledge, the Lee Hin lineage and it’s ‘short-hand’ style are not really seen a ‘pure’ CLF.
I know there are a few representatives from Chan Family schools on the boards… Anyone care to confirm this, or correct me?
NoSpam, I guess I agree with you in saying that more advanced students can shorten the movements. Perhaps my perception of learning ‘short-hand’ as you advance is skewed…
I said to her, “For you who are so old but forever young I have many questions.”
She said to me, “And I have but one answer - you must be a silhouette of the dragon against the moon.”
Winnipeg
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=“-1”>quote:</font><HR> I don’t claim to speak for anyone other than myself, first of all, but to my knowledge, there is an accepted lineage of ‘Chan Family’ CLF. Again, to my knowledge, the Lee Hin lineage and it’s ‘short-hand’ style are not really seen a ‘pure’ CLF.
I know there are a few representatives from Chan Family schools on the boards… Anyone care to confirm this, or correct me?
[/quote]
Sorry. Confirm what? Yes, on my opinion Chan family lineage is definitely an accepted lineage and I think it’s pretty “pure” =)
The knowledge has been passed on in the Chan family from father to son. Chan Heung to Chan Koon Pak to Chan Yiu Chi to Chan Wan Hon to Chan Yong Fa, the current grandmaster and the keeper of the style of Chan family Choy lee fut.
Was this what you wanted to know? =)
Jutsow
You are a MORON,a naive one at
that.Good thing you don’t speak for all of the CLF people or I would find myself making childish
statments about your system.
wing chun vrs choy li fut..
message to jutsow—i have the utmost respect for both styles, choy li fut and wing chun but very little for you ,you cretinous f–ck.–your comment regarding kempo is offensive and pig ignorant.if you ever get the chance and have the bottle then visit grandmaster harayama or shihan fujimoto of the inyo ryu kempo school in kyoto or auckland (nz) and pass on your fascinating critique of their version of chinese kempo(sight unseen in your case of course toss pot).
