I can’t understand how this post even got started? Are there any other styles which are “enemies” of eachother? Eagle Claw vs. Monkey? or something else?
I’ve heard of White Crane and Wing Chun fighting in the 50’s and 60’s in HK. There were problems between Yip Man and Wing Chung with Yip Sui and Southern Mantis. Also a few things about Yau Kung Mun with nobody in particular.
yeah i heard choy lee fut guys and wing chun guys used to fight on the rooftops in HK
Personally, I find in general these days that style rivalries in kung fu tend to be within the same system or sub-systems within a style. An example of this would be the mid-1980s rivalry between practitioners of William Cheung’s and Leung Ting’s respective WC versions.
As for a rivalry between CLF and WC, that happened in a certain place back in a certain time involving certain people. I haven’t heard of any problems recently between these two systems.
Jim
clf and wing chun have had problems in the past because the two systems are about as different as can be. thier theories are almost totaly opposite. when you add into that the low self esteem and lack of character of the average wing chun man there is bound too be friction. not to mention that choy lee fut is in my opinion a far superior and well rounded system 
[This message was edited by jutsow on 03-10-01 at 03:58 PM.]
Really?
Are they really so different, Jutsow? I’m asking out of interest, since I have no experience of Choy Lay Fut and very little of Wing Chun (Just started training)…However, I do know of a guy who teaches both CLF and WC, and I think possibly even combines the two. Oh, and by the way, my mad Wing Chun stylingz will destroy your puny Choy Lay Fut! 
The friction between CLF& WC was in another time and another place. I am CLF practitioner and I have also studied some WC and have two close friends who are both WC instructors, we have no rivalry or friction and have learned and shared techniques and information with each other
Saying is not boasting at all
my point exactly. if it were just ignorance i could forgive you. but since you say you have experience in clf it isnt ignorance that blinds you it is stupidity.
Uh-huh…
That wasn’t aimed at me was it, Jutsow? Anyway, have you heard of a similar situation? Someone teaching both WC and CLF? What aspects of the two do you think are different, and how would that affect training in both?
Training CLF and WC together???
I can’t think how you could train both together.
First of all, which stances would you use? WC stances are high and compact, where CLF stances are low and wide. Secondly, WC teaches only kicks that are below the waist, where in CLF all targets are valid for kicks…
What about striking? There is no ‘chain punch’ in CLF, and WC has no wide circular punches like CLF (Sow Choi, Gwa Choi, Cap Choi, etc…)
To train both of these styles together would be to lose the core of both!
I said to her, “For you who are so old but forever young I have many questions.”
She said to me, “And I have but one answer - you must be a silhouette of the dragon against the moon.”
There was only ever any rivalry because both styles had students who liked a bit of a ruck. The only problem I have with WC schools is that a lot of them here have this vast superiority complex.(and I know WC as well).
There are kicks above the waist in WC as well, just no side kicks to the face and jumping spinning crescent kicks 
“Weapons are the embodiments of fear,
the wise use them only when they have no choice”
Lao Tzu
Fair enough.
I see what you’re saying, Winnipeg Dragon. Unfortunately, I can’t give very specific info on how they’re taught in this instance, since I don’t study with the guy…I’m not 100% on this, but from what I’ve gathered it’s mostly Wing Chun with stances and techniques from Choy Lay Fut thrown in. Again, I’m not sure of the specifics. Cheers for the reply.
thankyou winnepeg dragon
i’m glad someone besides me has decided to talk realisticly about this unpopular subject.
what style of choy lee fut do you study.
I guess silence is an admission of guilt…?
I suppose you were talking to me then, Jutsow. I think you may have misread my post, since I don’t think there’s anything in it which could possibly be considered offensive, unless you missed the sarcasm in the final sentence. Also, I think you mistakenly concluded that I am experienced in Choy Lay Fut from my statement that I have no experience in Choy Lay Fut (?!).
Anyway, I hope that cleared things up a bit, and maybe you could actually post a constructive response to my earlier question. I’d be interested to hear what you have to say about the difficulties of combining the two on a technical level, similar to Winnipeg Dragon’s response. Forgive me if this question is too obvious for you, but I’m just trying to use the forum to ask questions of people more experienced than me. Any replies would be appreciated, as long as you don’t start slagging me off again.
I guess there would probably be problems with body mechanics if the two are very different…But still, people sometimes crosstrain in two very different arts to work on different areas, don’t they? Could that work with CLF and WC?
Cheers.
Jutsow:
I study Hung Sing CLF, although our lineage comes through Lee Hin Cheung.
Ben:
I didn’t know that WC did any kicks above the waist, but of course, I have not studied WC. Most of my ‘knowledge’ on the subject comes from reading. Thank you for enlightening me.
A-S:
I have been trying to think how you could train both, and I just don’t think it would be possible. The techniques in WC, as far as I know, come from ‘driving’ power, and linearity. In CLF, the stances are low and solid in order to provide a base for the wider, more powerful swinging techniques.
Now, this is not to say that CLF is immobile, far from it, but to attempt a wide CLF technique in a WC stance would off-balance the stylist. To attempt a WC style series of punches in the lower stances of CLF would rob the stylist of the speed and linearity of the style. I guess this is what I meant by ‘losing the core of both’.
To even try and train the two together, the Sifu of that school must be either incredibly gifted, or incredibly stupid. My thinking leans towards the latter.
Erasmus:
I have a copy of an interesting article about the old rooftop fights between CLF and WC you might find interesting. I have posted it in this forum before under another topic a few months back. Email me at omnidave@home.com if you would like a copy sent to you. Anyone else who is interested, just drop me a message!
I said to her, “For you who are so old but forever young I have many questions.”
She said to me, “And I have but one answer - you must be a silhouette of the dragon against the moon.”
Jutsow
I believe you have the right to dislike wing chun,I can understand you may have reasons of your own.But,you seem to even hate peoples who practice wing chun! Is there a reason for that?
BTW,I don’t suffer from low self esteem or lack of character!
C’est la vie!
learning both styles
although both styles are from, theory and fudimentaly opposites, it is still possable that one can learn both.
i am from buk sing , and my si-sook as well as my sifu, where two of the five black panthers of choi li fut of hong kong, who took part in the fighting in the mid 50’s to mid 60’s, between the choi li fut families and wing chun
the five black panthers where the five chosen by the elders of the choi li fut families, after much conflict to fight against the top five wing chun players to finish off the situation which was starting to get out of hand and also disrupt the hong kong martial community as well as the community at large.
si-sook also learnt eventually wing chun, and he has more than the ability to play both, although of coarse his speciality is buk sing.
the comments that to learn both, the person would have to be either gifted or stupid, and you lay more with the latter, then here is one who is the first - gifted.
sometimes our knowledge is not as large as what we think, and our words say only what we know.
bean curd
…and what was the outcome of these fights (the black pathers aganst the wing chun guys)? btw, do you know by any chance who these top five wing chun stylists were? just curious…
Interesting
Hmm…Sounds like a difficult proposition, Winnipeg Dragon. I suppose even if he is extremely gifted, it may not be a good idea to teach the two together unless he has only extremely gifted students as well, which seems an unlikely state of affairs. Oh well…Maybe he was taught the REAL Choy Lay Fut and the REAL Wing Chun and they complement each other perfectly. You never know.
Well…
Bean Curd:
I said that whoever was teaching both must be gifted or stupid, not whoever was learning both. I can’t think that most people would be able to learn both, and that therefore, someone teaching both together is being irresponsible. Of course, this is all my own opinion, and I imagine others will see it differently.
Moebius:
All the articles I have ever read about the CLF vs WC rooftop fights said that champions were crowned on both sides. The better fighter won, regardless of style. As far as these ‘Black Panthers’ though, I have no idea.
Anarcho:
The real CLF and WC? They are both derivitives of Blue Ape Kung Fu, of course…
I said to her, “For you who are so old but forever young I have many questions.”
She said to me, “And I have but one answer - you must be a silhouette of the dragon against the moon.”