Which is better?
See:
http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/archive/index.php/t-12484.html
For a good discussion.
It’s probably more the person than the art.
see uke
less about style more about perception and teamwork
I have two students who work doors together. They both have some previous experience with martial arts, and a lot of experience fighting in the streets.
We dont do any free sparring, or enter any competitions, and i’ve never seen them practicing their breast-stroke in the kwoon but i know they do have to work outside in the rain sometimes, do they still qualify as dry-land swimmers?
Oh, and YongChun, how about a post that doesn’t follow the same ‘I once heard from a [x-style] practicioner that once he fought a [y-style practicioner] who had trained for [n] years and … Which style do you think is better?’ structure?
In my years of bouncing I used redirecting force, locks, arm bars etc.. to handle the encouters that got physical. I can only think of two times that I used strikes, and would label both as mistakes on my part. It really does not matter which MA you use, just as long as you can control the attackers.
Originally posted by YongChun
[B]Hi Crimsonking. Sorry my literary skills are definitely lacking. Mostly I try to report on what my members have found or pass on stories from all the people I trained under which for the most part are Wing Chun people. I have tried to vary the structure and topic to promote discussion but I guess not successfully. So back to grade one English for me.
Ray [/B]
Ray - Your literary skills are not what i’m was criticising - and no personal offense is meant. It just seems that a large number of your posts boil down to a simplistic view of comparison of styles based on hearsay. If a tai chi guy beat a judoka, or an aikidoist took out 3 doormen what does that really tell you? I heard a story about a tyre fitter who beat a truck driver. Social identity theory here we come!
If you are looking for literary advice - i suggest you try to be more concise - i rarely bother to read posts that are more than a couple of hundred words.
Originally posted by Tydive
In my years of bouncing I used redirecting force, locks, arm bars etc.. to handle the encouters that got physical. I can only think of two times that I used strikes, and would label both as mistakes on my part. It really does not matter which MA you use, just as long as you can control the attackers.
That’s a different experience to my students who work doors. They’ve found that most of the time you cant get a lock on without striking first. It’s even taught in Aikido.
I “strike” to the thing I want to grab then go from there. So maybe that is what they are talking about. But almost never had to hit somebody in the face or torso first. Often these are very close range encounters so it is very easy to grab a hand or wrist. Many of them were nice enough to even give me their hands by trying to push or punch.
I tend to think of it this way, go for hands or legs first, arm second, torso third, head last. I keep attacking the centerline with the intent of keeping my center while disrupting the opponents. Ask your bouncers how often they really need to do a body blow.
Also note that if your partner is on the job one of you will be either behind or at least in the blind spot of your main target(s). Very rarely did I have to go face to face with someone, we worked it so that the guy in front was the distraction, the other was “primary contact”.
The best bouncing team I ever saw used to double-team the obnoxious. One would engage the boisterous one verbally, while the other put him in a rear naked choke position and cranked his neck to the rear to put him off balance (neither the choke nor the neck crank were applied hard unless necessary). Then they’d slowly take the guy backwards toward the door, keeping him off balance so he’d have to follow them and could not retaliate. The guy would be taken outside and told to go elsewhere. I saw these guys successfully handle about ten guys in one night without hitting or damaging any of them.
I don’t know what would have happened if a brawl had erupted … but I’m pretty confident these guys would have had a plan.
The answer to Ray’s question:
According to the thread, and assuming the choice is a necessity rather than a false dichotomy, neither BJJ not WC is a great choice of art for bouncers.
They both rock as martial arts, but if you want to bounce, get some professional training in crowd control, and study Geoff Thompson’s materials - The Fence, Dead or Alive, The Art of Fighting Without Fighting, Watch my Back (though the latter is more anecdotal and full of reasons not to be a bouncer rather than a howto).