Hi there,
any one have an experiences to share about
sparring with other styles using wing chun?.. particularly,
western boxing, muy thai, tae kwan do and karate?
which wing chun techniques or concepts did you find
most and least effective against these styles?
I have sparred with thai boxers.
Their kicks to thigh are pretty effective. If you take control of the center line and pressure your opponent forward (making him go backwards) the kicks become useles. You can also use your knee to block their kicks efffectively, dont use any hand techniques to block kicks.
Another tip is to keep the elbows in to protect yourself from body shots. I prefer fighting with my lead hand out towards my opponent. If you’re fast enough alot of wing chun techniques still apply including bong sau (bong sau will espose you to hook punches if held too long), pak sau and limited trapping.
I have sparred against several styles. Animal boxing, CLF, boxing, wrestling, bagua, hsing-i, judo, taiji etc. Wing chun works great if you can adapt it to your situation. Remember centerline theory isn’t always the best direct route. Sometimes you must reach the center from an indirect route. I learned the hard way and then eventually caught on. Also some people will try to kick you in the face. The first few times you see a fast switch from a low kick to a high kick it kind of freaks you out a bit. Just remember to stay calm and try not to tense. I know when I get backed up and am getting pummled by blows I sometimes tense my shoulders out of nervous habbit. So, it is a hard habbit to break.
WC works fine if you go in
However if you hang about on the periphery you will start chasing hands and legs and eventually you will get hit
The problem with sparring is the kind of stand off/step in hit, step back counter mentality it can engender, purely because you are not (for the most part), wanting to be overly aggressive.
The main thing though is not to hesitate or hang about in bridging range. Just wait for an opportune moment and then step in. And once you’re in dont let your opponent get away from you- relentlessly pursue him until the job is done.
Also be aware of level changes as once your in and have a clear line of attack to someones head, the first thing they will normally do is duck and, if they have any experience, go for a tackle.
That said when sparring/fighting I expect to get hit. However these hits are usually ‘wanky’ hits i.e. they are all arm/no connection to the body/jabbing/ glancing blows since if you upset someone balance (as you should do) they will have no ‘power base’ from which to launch knockout strikes.
As they say ‘you cant win a game of chess without loosing a few pieces’.
Sometimes you do not want to directly engage your opponet. Sometimes engaging them is what will make you lose the fight. Sometimes you want to keep distance. You should spar like how you would fight in a real fight. However, its a controlled enviroment. You know the person is going to attack you, you know its not full force or full contact, and you also know that if you get hurt the sparring match will stop.
One example I can think of is animal boxing, peticularly monkey boxing. You don’t want to engage the monkey because that is what they want you to do. They will grab, claw, and climb up any limb you give them and break it. That is their style of kung fu. Granted, your odds of running into a monkey fighter on the streets is probably really slim.
I’ve spent some time sparring a few different styles using Wing Chun. These include boxing, kickboxing, karate, and Mantis kung fu. I think it’s very useful to try and apply your art’s theory and technique against someone who either doesn’t know or more specifically doesn’t care about them.
As an example, I discovered the hard way that straight doesn’t always beat circular when I sparred Mantis kung fu. This guy used roundhouse punches a lot. He would counter with them, throw them in combination, even use them as a lead. His power, speed and accuracy made it very difficult to just walk in with straight punches. By the time I tried a different method(cover and hit), I was too hurt (broken nose, black eye, aching ribs) and exhausted to make much headway. Was his roundhouse attack the most efficient thing? Maybe not, but it was hard to argue against effectiveness. Additional lesson: theory’s great, but when push comes to shove you do what you gotta do..
Boxers were also very interesting. By and large, these guys had excellent mobility, hand speed and head movement. Most has power in both hands and could counter punch very effectively. For example, they could shift off line and rip a body hook or throw an overhand from the opposite angle. Low kicks worked reasonably well, but they would often jam and close the distance aggressively. In close, they would work the clinch and then use body shifting to maneuver for a shot. It was extremely difficult to trap their hands because of their quick footwork and speed and fluidity of combinations. I discovered by accident that decent elbows could stun/slow head weaving long enough to allow a lop/pac to be applied. Once closing became more tentative, simultaneous block and strikes and even interceptions like front kick worked much better. Lesson learned: Other people can apply WC ideas effectively and not even know it. Strong bridging, closing and pressuring moves can be used both by and against you, sometimes VERY EFFECTIVELY. Additional lesson:the punch you don’t see can really put your lights out!
Kickboxing stylists were by and large just way bigger than me. They liked to use combination long range punches and kicks to keep me at the end of their range and when I got in close would either clinch or lash out with elbows/knees. Bridging in this instance was real pain: long limbs and fast/powerful techniques made proper entry very difficult. Too short and I would wind up in punching range… against punches that were still LONGER than mine. Too close and I would eat a knee or get clinched by someone who was already bigger/stronger. I found that I had to instill an agressive tone to the sparring early on. Couldn’t let them build up steam/foward momentum. Once they were back on their heels a bit I could counter their counterattacks…this is where the various trapping and deflective techniques of Wc came in REALLY useful. Just for me though, the faster, stronger, heavily commited rush from these guys was hard/impossible to neutralize with orthodox WC moves. Found out early that the big guys always dangerous, even off balance. Sparred one Taekwondo guy who was somewhere shy of 300 lbs (i’m about 175). During a flurry, he winged a sloppy backfist WHILE FALLING BACKWARDS ON ONE LEG that snapped my head back, stunning me long enough for him to set a a huge overhand right. Additional lesson learned: get close and stay close, but not too close…you really don’t want to clinch these big guys if you don’t have to.
Sorry about the length of the post. Just wanted to share some of my experiences.
Later,
Meta
Originally posted by Vio
I have sparred with thai boxers.
Their kicks to thigh are pretty effective. If you take control of the center line and pressure your opponent forward (making him go backwards) the kicks become useles. You can also use your knee to block their kicks efffectively, dont use any hand techniques to block kicks.
Another tip is to keep the elbows in to protect yourself from body shots. I prefer fighting with my lead hand out towards my opponent. If you’re fast enough alot of wing chun techniques still apply including bong sau (bong sau will espose you to hook punches if held too long), pak sau and limited trapping.
no thaiboxer worth his salt will just let you drive him backwards. After a few steps, he’s going to step at an angle. you are right about the hands though - definitely don’t block kicks with them.