[QUOTE=poulperadieux;1222141]I think WC can’t be taken in a ring because footwork…
Not suited for Sparring, that’s all.
If you want to use something in a ring, use boxing, MMA, Thai Boxing, they were adapted for these kind of conditions.
If you see, for example, the difference between olympic fencing and ancient Fencing (duel fencing with things that cut and pierce), not hte same footwork, not the same stategies, the same risks.
Same difference between Muay Thai and Muay Boran, between French Boxing and Savate…
When you bring a gong fu in a ring with rules, you gain some things, you loose other things.[/QUOTE]
No footwork ? That’s a primary function of WSL PB fighting.
1 5 Basic Stances
1 Chor ma (turning stance)
2 Seung Ma or Bue Ma (forwarding stance)
3 Toi Ma or Sayi ma (deflecting stance)
4 Bik ma or bik bo (chasing stance)
5 Sip ma (3 angle stance)
2 5 Combination Stances
1 Seung Gok ma (forward bracing)
2 Toi Gok ma (backward bracing)
3 Ngoi Chiu Ying ma ( inside facing)
4 Hoi Chiu Ying ma (outside facing)
5 Juen ma (180 degree turn)
3 Moving single man techniques (Combination of the stances and the 17 singles, 4 gates and the 8 double hand techniques)
4 Kicking:
1 Jing Dok Lop ma (front single leg)
2 Wang Dok Lop ma (side single leg)
3 Jing/Wang Tai Gurk (control front & side raising kick)
4 Jing/Wang Dang Gurk (control nailing front & side kick)
5 Gaan Gurk (5 Leg Blocks) Soo, Bong, Gaan, Pak Sut, Wu Sut
6 Yin/Yang Rotation of Kicks (Front Kick up/ Down, Side Kick up/Down)
7 Jing Gurk Jut Gurk
8 Pak Gurk in Air
9 Wu Gurk in Air
10 Bong Gurk Chai Gurk
11 Huen Jing Gurk
12 Huen Wang Gurk
13 Tiu Chai Gurk
14 Tiu Tai Gur
If you see, for example, the difference between olympic fencing and ancient Fencing (duel fencing with things that cut and pierce), not hte same footwork, not the same stategies, the same risks.
That is true… but unfortunately dueling is illegal in most places.[/QUOTE]
Based on things that were written by guys who told what worked and what didn’t AFTER someone was dead because of the mistake, or because of the superior technique.
And the Writings are still there, you can buy the books or read them on internet.
It’s stunning to see all was already written more than 4 centuries ago.
That is true… but unfortunately dueling is illegal in most places.[/QUOTE]
Fortunately yes,
Was forbidden in France because too much rich nobless yougsters died …
From 1588 to 1608, they counted 10 000 deaths. Noted, and used to refine duelling techniques, and weapon technology.
2 Deaths a day.
Do you have the same field experience and writings in the Wing Chun geek world?
With written manuals based on real facts?
Sorry I forgot, now you’ve got MMA, the superior art of fighting and testing.
We in France, we’ve got the Tour the France to test Drugs on athletes these days also.
There were still duels in Europe in the beginning of the XXth century, so this is still not so long ago.
Last known duels in France were :
Serge Lifar and marquis de Cuevas in 1958, Gaston Defferre and René Ribière en 1967 for political divergences at l’Assemblée Nationale.
[QUOTE=Phil Redmond;1222076]I disagree. Most fighters I know are really laid back. They are confident in their skills and they know they can lose some and win some. It’s usually people who have never tested their art outside of the comfort zone of their respective kwoon/dojo/dojang etc. They are the ones more prone to Sifu/lineage worship, and worst of all, trash talking other styles/lineages. You’ll see trash talking in MMA. K1, Boxing before the fight. That’s the promotional hype. But in most cases you’ll see the respect for each other after the fight. Of course there are some exceptions where there is really bad blood between two fighters but that’s not the norm. Hanging out with an opponent after a fight is not uncommon.[/QUOTE]
I don’t disagree Phil and I don’t think that anything you’ve said is contradictory to my original post which was a response to the suggestion that if more people fought the politics and bickering would go away. That will only be the case if the ultimate goal of training becomes sport / competition. When that happens everyone is training towards being a winner in the competition environment and so arguments over whose approach is better become slightly more mute (however you still get inter camp rivalries and marketing battles between local gyms who each have multiple champions at differnet weights or in different organisations). As the primary aim of many Wing Chun practitioners is not to compete in sport then fights and tournaments will only be amongst selected individuals and until you have matched a statistically relevant portion of the populations of two lineages it is impossible to draw any conclusions about the efficacy of practices of either.
Oh and the people who don’t fight will continue to have big egos and loud mouths to go with their glossy marketing
[QUOTE=poulperadieux;1222171]If you want to fight, do some thai matches in thailand.
Than your wing chun will be better when you come back…[/QUOTE]
I did that (well China to be exact).
I suggest you try it to find out what works and what doesn’t. I am sure many of your theories on the forum will change after.
Yes let’s do it and whilst we are at it we can try going to a Ninjutsu, Karate, Krav Maga, Mantis, Hung Gar, Choy Li Fut, Samba, Boxing, Judo, Sumo, Tea kwon Do, etc etc etc and then when we return we can look in the mirror and say we conquered the world. Only then we will be sure that WC works.
Better still let’s give up Wing Chun as it seems many think it doesn’t work. There aren’t enough sparring videos and Rocky Balboas around to reinforce the fact that WC works. :rolleyes:
What about all of us getting together and the one who wins may have the best Kung Fu and we can all follow him.
Really? Do you guys actually listen to yourselves? :eek:
I don’t think Wing Chun as a system deserves to be laughed at. It’s the people within that make it rubbish. No need to mention any names. You only have to read some of the responses and it jumps right out of the screen at you.
Based on things that were written by guys who told what worked and what didn’t AFTER someone was dead because of the mistake, or because of the superior technique.
And the Writings are still there, you can buy the books or read them on internet.
It’s stunning to see all was already written more than 4 centuries ago.[/QUOTE]
That is a good video of serious long weapon work. Thanks.
[QUOTE=poulperadieux;1222141]I think WC can’t be taken in a ring because footwork…
Not suited for Sparring, that’s all.
If you want to use something in a ring, use boxing, MMA, Thai Boxing, they were adapted for these kind of conditions.
If you see, for example, the difference between olympic fencing and ancient Fencing (duel fencing with things that cut and pierce), not hte same footwork, not the same stategies, the same risks.
Same difference between Muay Thai and Muay Boran, between French Boxing and Savate…
When you bring a gong fu in a ring with rules, you gain some things, you loose other things.[/QUOTE]
This argument has been put to rest many times over the past century or so. The first example of this happened back in 1886 when the “we spar full contact with safe techniques” philosopy of Kodokan judo soundly trounced the “our techniques are not suited for sporting competitions” philosophy of Japanese jujutsu in a series of NHB type matches.
There are many examples of of this same thing happening over and over again in the years since.
