Hey guys, let’s try to keep the discussion even keeled.
ROGUE…no bro…it would have been a different fight if CHEUNG wore NIKE AIRs. YES…this is an actual statment my sifu told me!
Legend: It’s gotta be the shoes!
LMAO!!!
It must be great never to really be defeated. Kind of like when a sports team says we beat ourselves. No moron, the other guys kicked yo butt.
I’m not much of a Bruce Lee fan, but when his big fight didn’t go well at least he considered what he did wrong and tried to fix it.
Yeah, he shoulda worn steel toed para boots then he coulda rooted AND kicked **** outta Boz.
Legend, I’m impressed, wtf was the six-letter word you used that got *ed?!
Diego, why are you defending him so much? The video is plain for all to see that neither of them showed anything like the abilities you’d expect off a senior student, let alone a “grandmaster”!
And I’m sure the shoes would have had some impact and a good grip may have helped, but a “grandmaster” should be able to deal with unsatisfactory footwear!
:rolleyes:
Mat. Seven letters. I’m guessing Asshole. Could be fuckwit.
Actually, could be a lot of things! 
Cheung and Ting should fight. Why hide behind students
First of all, Boztepe was wrong in challenging someone in the middle of a seminar. Starting a fight in the middle of the seminar is both unfair to the teacher, as well as the paying students.
With that said: When William Cheung publically states that he will fight anyone, he should be prepared to “fight anyone.”
The Gracies had an open challenge. So people challenged them in the middle of their seminars, and even walked into schools. I have seen Hapkido and Kung Fu fighters challenge Rorion in the middle of his seminar. He beat those guys into a pulp. Actually, the one time he took it easy on the guy, the guy got up after tapping out and asked to fight again. The same thing happened when a Russian Judo guy, Kenpo 3rd degree, and San Soo Kung Fu guy came into the Gracie Academy and posted a challenged. They got that chance. The San Soo guy asked to fight three times and was creamed all three times. The Kenpo guy fought Royler twice and lost both times. When a famouse fighter from japan came down and challenged Royce (he was actually hoping to fight Rickson…who was 10 years his senior), Rickson drove from his house and kicked the crap out of the japanese shooto fighter. So when William Cheung talks about lineage, levels, specifics of techniques he used, etc. etc., it sounds like a bunch of exuses.
He should have granted Boztepe a rematch in the United States. Showing that guy who the true Grandmaster is. All this talk of respect sounds idiotic when obviously none of these people respect one another and talk s..t about one another. Why wouldn’t William Cheung just call up this Ting fellow and say, “instead of having our men do battles, why don’t we just fight and see who deserves to be the true Grandmaster?” But, these guys would rather just have their fighters fight one another instead of stepping up to the challenge.
MA fanatic.
Matt…I have no idea…I don’t recall cussing!
Serpent…I’m not lying either…one of the sifus stated to me if CHEUNG had been wearing NIKE or tennis shoes…the fight u see on video would have been much different! I’ve heard the excuses changed numerous times…first the shoes…then how William was too old…then how EMIN trained for a whole year specifically to defeat William…finally that William has successfully dispersed ALL of EMIN’s strike using wing chun! OKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKKK…
Yep. Like I said before, a couple of punks wrassling. If Cheung had on better shoes he might have stayed on his feet longer. But either way, they both looked like a couple of amatuers.
Shame really. Very embarrassing for wing chun in general.
Thanks SD, that’s kind ofthe point I was trying to get across.
So many stories of so-and-so 200 years ago, then when it comes to it, what do you get - 2 guys in what looks like a playground fight. Real life never is like the movies huh?
Originally posted by Serpent
[B]Diego, why are you defending him so much? The video is plain for all to see that neither of them showed anything like the abilities you’d expect off a senior student, let alone a “grandmaster”!
And I’m sure the shoes would have had some impact and a good grip may have helped, but a “grandmaster” should be able to deal with unsatisfactory footwear!
:rolleyes: [/B]
all i am saying is you people are talking to much!. and if you didnt read the article wich is the point of this thread…HE SAID I KICKED TO PUSH HIM AWAY THE FLOOR WAS SLIPPERY SO I SLIPPED, AFTER ALL THAT I TAUGHT A SEMINAR, I DID NOT WANT TO FIGHT
who cares what rank anyone who doesnt want to fight a simple challeng match inschool “lineage” with a junior shouldnt have to!.
Re: Cheung and Ting should fight. Why hide behind students
Originally posted by MA fanatic
[B]First of all, Boztepe was wrong in challenging someone in the middle of a seminar. Starting a fight in the middle of the seminar is both unfair to the teacher, as well as the paying students.
With that said: When William Cheung publically states that he will fight anyone, he should be prepared to “fight anyone.”
The Gracies had an open challenge. So people challenged them in the middle of their seminars, and even walked into schools. I have seen Hapkido and Kung Fu fighters challenge Rorion in the middle of his seminar. He beat those guys into a pulp. Actually, the one time he took it easy on the guy, the guy got up after tapping out and asked to fight again. The same thing happened when a Russian Judo guy, Kenpo 3rd degree, and San Soo Kung Fu guy came into the Gracie Academy and posted a challenged. They got that chance. The San Soo guy asked to fight three times and was creamed all three times. The Kenpo guy fought Royler twice and lost both times. When a famouse fighter from japan came down and challenged Royce (he was actually hoping to fight Rickson…who was 10 years his senior), Rickson drove from his house and kicked the crap out of the japanese shooto fighter. So when William Cheung talks about lineage, levels, specifics of techniques he used, etc. etc., it sounds like a bunch of exuses.
He should have granted Boztepe a rematch in the United States. Showing that guy who the true Grandmaster is. All this talk of respect sounds idiotic when obviously none of these people respect one another and talk s..t about one another. Why wouldn’t William Cheung just call up this Ting fellow and say, “instead of having our men do battles, why don’t we just fight and see who deserves to be the true Grandmaster?” But, these guys would rather just have their fighters fight one another instead of stepping up to the challenge.
MA fanatic. [/B]
Wasnt that open challenge to the remaining wing chun gms under ip man?. and didnt cheung put up a challenge or 50g$ to fight ting and he declined?.
Diego: LOL Are you asking me? I’m not sure what he did. BTW, you actually cut and paste my entire post for one question? lol I just don’t know the answer. IF Yip Man was around, he should have publically restated that Cheung was the one to carry on the Wing Chun Grandmastership. Let me put it this way, if I come down to the Lion’s Den and ask to fight Ken Shamrock, Shamrock would not say, “this chap is several steps under me, so I’ll only fight someone my rank, etc. etc.” NO. He’d kick my but and put me in the hospital. If I march into the Gracie Academy and demand to fight Rickson or I wont leave, he could soundly beat me. I can’t believe these people still follow some lineage codes, provide pictures and names of instructors who are willing to fight some guy at some other guy’s level. Cheung should just say, “Boztepe, you little punk, you jumped me once, how about coming down to my turf and I’ll use you as a wing chun wooden dummy.” Then call up Ting and say, “I took care of one of your men, I hope there wont be others or this would be an issue for the legal system. Or, just come down and we could finish our little debate as well.” That’s respectable. One just can’t claim to be the “deadliest man” and/or say that he/she will fight anyone, and then hide behind some lineage.
As for the technical part of the fight, it’s no shame going to the ground. In a real fight, technique goes right out the window. That’s why cross training is crucial in case one does wind up on the ground or in a clinch or in a full nelson head lock, or fighting off a slippery turraine.
I wish someone could explain to me who after all this, Ting and Boztepe can still be respected? How come they still have some kind of cult following. Well, Boztepe may have matured and become a good master? What about Ting?
Because the mystique and allure of Chinese martial arts allows teachers to maintain their status while not actually letting anyone near them.
In this way these guys can remain “undefeated”.
With a few exceptions this seems the case across the board. Of course any challenges can be dealt with by saying “oh it’s not all about fighting” or the person is “not at my level”, but at the end of the day they are happy to promote what they do as deadly and effective.
In fact it is so deadly, they cannot fight you without “severly hurting you” - which makes the acheivements of the Gracies even more remarkable if you think about it.
bob
Bob: I couldnt agree with you more. I have seen a guy challenge Rorion Gracie in the middle of his seminar. The guy said he was a Hapkido instructor. Rorion stops the seminar, has all the student sit outside the mat, allows the Hapkido guy to warm up, and when the guy is ready, Rorion defeats him in seconds. He taps the guy without a single strike. So the guy gets up and challenges Rorion again saying that he wasn’t ready. Rorion beats him again, but doesn’t hurt him. Just taps him. The guy gets up the third time and challenges Rorion. Rorion takes him down, the guy tries to go for Rorion’s groin (which is a stupid move some Hapkido guys learn as defense against being mounted not knowing that they’re exposing their neck to be choked or broken), and Rorion chokes the guy out unconsious in less than 5 seconds. Same seminar a Kung Fu guy challenged Rorion and Rorion put him away once just as fast. I once saw Vlad Vasiliev in the middle of his seminar as if anyone wants to step up and spar with him. Some guy’s obviously wanted to test Vlad’s skill in a more realistic way than just sparring. Vlad made sure those guys know who’s boss at this seminar. Otherwise, all this talk about lineage and levels, sounds like a bunch of higherarchy where people are made out to be larger than life. For students who are easily influenced, this makes for a cult like atmoshere.
MA fanatic
Hi MAF
That’s one thing that impressed me about Vladimir when I first met him - the willingness to let anyone try anything on him in seminars, or in class. Also to let guys that aren’t his students put chokes and locks on him.
He also manages to make his point without injuring people.
I’ve seen one or two CMA guys with a similar approach, if not the skill, but they are few and far between.
“.HE SAID I KICKED TO PUSH HIM AWAY THE FLOOR WAS SLIPPERY SO I SLIPPED”
yes i read the article, and I saw the film, and the above statement either is a lie, or chueng has no idea at all about range, since the kick came when he was being clenched.
OK, I don’t do wing chun, and could care less about cheung and bozteppe, so here’s my opinion on the “fight”:
-First, it WAS NOT one on one, as if it had been one on one, cheung could have just walked away. The circle of people around cheung aren’t seminar attendees, plain and simple.
-As the option of just walking away should not have been seen to be an option, next cheung has to consider that he is in a foreign land facing a situation where his only options are to potentially go to jail, or get roughed up a bit.
-The tape is clearly not the entire fight, and the fact that it begins part way through the action, and is a product that is sold for cash, begs the question “what is so unprofitable about the footage BEFORE what we just viewed?”
So, what would you all do in a situation where, because of circumstance, you cannot be caught fighting, but also cannot get out of the fight? Do you think your answer will be the same when you are in your fourties?
Just curious.
First - it was one on one, nobody else joined in. Granted WC may not have known that, but that makes his “strategy” even odder
Two - surely a Grandmaster has the skills to control and subdue an opponent, especially one as “junior” as EB. Or is it all “deadly strikes”?
Three - well it couldn’t have been anything that great as EB is still operative.
Four - I almost am in my 40’s. For a start I wouldn’t tout myself as the “worlds deadliest / fastest / only-I-have-the-real art” teacher.
If it comes down to legal issues - well I’m sure Germany’s law on reasonable force is equivalent to the UK. As for working illegaly in the country - well, is that the sort of thing a Grandmaster should be doing?
So what would I do? Whatever I needed to protect myself, whehter physcially, verbally or whatever.
Face it, Cheung got caught out.
“Three - well it couldn’t have been anything that great as EB is still operative.”
Seeing as how it’s bozteppe’s footage, this is pure speculation. He might still be operative because he didn’t show the earlier footage. Again, it’s somewhat suspicious.
“I wouldn’t tout myself as the “worlds deadliest / fastest / only-I-have-the-real art” teacher.”
Agreed.
“I’m sure Germany’s law on reasonable force is equivalent to the UK.”
I don’t think challenge matches are covered under “reasonable force”, and I doubt they are as forgiving for foreignors.
“As for working illegaly in the country - well, is that the sort of thing a Grandmaster should be doing?”
All the more reason for people not to use titles like that, IMO.
“So what would I do? Whatever I needed to protect myself, whehter physcially, verbally or whatever.”
Legally as well?
“Face it, Cheung got caught out.”
The guy finished the seminar, which pretty much tells ya that Bozteppe couldn’t have caused any real harm, which means, as we all already determined many months ago, this was a fight with all losers, and no winner.