Hi Mat.
Shadow D, wassup?! You’ve been conspicuous by your absence for a while…
Been busy. Lots of things going on at the moment.
Least of all that I am currently looking at a few kwoons to take me to the next step in my continuing MA exploration.
Peace.
OK, look at it this way.
Take the context away and just look at that video without any foreknowledge of who those guys are or what the argument is. You’d think it was just two punks with no training of any kind having a brawl! Neither of them shows any real technique or fighting prowess. Cheung went down like a puss and Emin did nothing with his advantage. I remember fights in school that showed better ability.
Whatever you reckon about the politics and the people, looks to me like two punks wrassling.
sure serpie;) but in cheungs defence he said he didnt even try, and people are saying he sucks, when if you look at it in context from the known facts, people shouldnt be mocking chueng cuz he didnt do anything & he isnt the one promoting the tape!.
Well he wouldn’t really want to promote the tape would he, given how it looks for him.
As for not trying - is he really saying that the only way he can get out of that situation is to maim or kill someone?
If that is so, then how much use is his art for self defence?
I’m sorry, but it all just sounds like excuses to me.
shadow d: i don’t think emin regrets anything about it because, at several of his seminars, he bragged about the thing. i’ve heard him start sentences with
“when i beat up william cheung …”
at at least three of his seminars. doesn’t sound much like regret to me.
OK that’s just straight stupid!!! William Cheung fought and got disposed of…some of u guys are saying he didn’t really fight…he was trying to neutralize Emin’s strikes. BS! How the hell u’re gonna neutralize someone strikes from the bottom position unless u know the BJJ GUARD??? Emin had total control of the situation and could have hurt William even more…there was no need to…he embarassed William Cheung. William Cheung has the rep. to promote himself saying he fought 30 ARMED guys before…so why would he be scared if EMIN brought 30 unarmed guys??? All it amount to is BS! The point is if u claim u’re the ONLY GRANDMASTER in WING CHUN and everyone else is fraud…then expect challenges.
Originally posted by rubthebuddha
[B]shadow d: i don’t think emin regrets anything about it because, at several of his seminars, he bragged about the thing. i’ve heard him start sentences with
“when i beat up william cheung …”
at at least three of his seminars. doesn’t sound much like regret to me. [/B]
While it gave him publicity, it has also cost him quiet a bit of respect & admiration from what I hear.
Plus, I agree with Serpent, neither showed much skill from what I saw.
Also agree with Legend that if you claim certain things you must be able to back them up.
I see many MA (TMA & MMA) that claimed a lot and been called on those claims later on.
Example:
Miyamoto Musashi had a LOT of duels/fights (about 30 I think) and was an accomplished professional Soldier.
But now we got people claiming records of (700 - 0) fights by Pro-Sports players.
Peace.
Isn’t it interesting how the GM of every system or style was “unbeaten”. Who did these guys fight?
wow, such a vast quantity of BS here, where can i start?
“so what would you “the wc haters” what would you have done, if you didnt even want to spar your junior, but he wanted to hurt you to build his rep!?”
I would have beat the crap out the guy in front of me as quick as i could if i was able to, as any half way smart fighter woould. MAybe you should just stand there and let the attacker beat you to death, eh?
“On the other hand Cheung went to his back, neutralized Emin and held off being attacked by Emins krew.”
No, Cheung tried to make a beginners mistake and roll over to his stomach to get up. Emein, with no submission experience, held him on his back instead of taking the armbar that was offered or taking his back and getting the choke. Both guys looked completely helpless on the ground, although emin had a tiny bit of skill.
" Cheung neutralised the problem in such a way as he didn’t get arrested,"
No he didnt ! He got beat down and was helpless, if all he had wanted to do was nuetralize Emin he could have it by pulling gaurd and tying emin up. He was lost, totally lost on the ground, at one point hes on the ground, both his arms out straight, no idea at all as to how to protect himself.
“if cheungs statements real how many real martial artists could defuse that situation?.”
You defuse a situation by KOing the attacker. To just let a guy beat you is not “defusing the situation”
“but in cheungs defence he said he didnt even try”
Yea, thats the oldest excuse in the book, lol@ you!
The amount of jockriding and excuse making on this thread is incredible, you guys need to wake up an rewatch the clip. seriuosly, even a three month groundfighter would have done a lot better than the “grandmaster” did. Its posts like these that hurt the kung fu community in the eyes of MMA people, just foolish, silly , clutching at straws to defend an idol.
bob10.
A lot of the founders of system were invented persons or famous dead people that were credited with founding a system to give it more credibility.
Plus, Asians like to tell a good story and many stories of exploits of previous masters are not factual but were simply used as a lesson to explain a point or aspect of the Art.
Was needed as most people could not write (read yes) and that invludes some famous MA Masters, so everything was taught by words and parables/stories.
Plus, who cares what a dead Guy 200 yrs could do, you are not studying under him I hope.
As for the unbeaten GM, it is all showmanship to sell the goods.
Heck even many “modern” MA systems use them to sell their wares(Street effective, 100% sparring, Best System, etc).
Just look at how many people claim Military(Seal, Marine, LEO) connection, same in the past with training Imperial Guards.
The Imperial Court collected MA teachers to teach their guards a wide variety of MA and give them the best all-round training.
Hence, there were many MA Masters teaching at the same time at the Courts, sometimes as many as 20~30.
Many of the MA of old were also street performers, doing “impossible feats” to earn money and enhance their reputation as MA of skill.
Peace.
[SIZE=4]Heritic[/SIZE] ![SIZE=3]How dare you[/SIZE]
For realz…this is ****ing me off…how the hell u neutralize someone by allowing him to beat u up!!! What the hell is that…having studied under WILLIAM CHEUNG ORG. my rep. is one that as soon as u attack I will roll up into a ball and let u hit me??? that’s called neutralization??? U sir are a MORON!!!
Originally posted by bob10
[B]Well he wouldn’t really want to promote the tape would he, given how it looks for him.
As for not trying - is he really saying that the only way he can get out of that situation is to maim or kill someone?
If that is so, then how much use is his art for self defence?
I’m sorry, but it all just sounds like excuses to me. [/B]
Some of you posters are crackheads, think with commonsence not stereotypically, emin boztepes camp filmed and distributed that tape fully edited!.
cheung put out a letter to the wing chun gms for a traditional challenge..emin who had no right took that challenge upon himself
cheung said after the seminar sure i will entertain you we can spar Junior!.
do you people know what a traditional challenge is? a gentlemans challenge…BOOM EMIN FLIPPED SAID NO WE FIGHT ON SOME HAN ISLAND ****
Now lets all be big boys for a minute, since none of us were thier nor can we transmigrate into cheungs fucin astral history, we have no idea what were his intentions, so unless your a social retard why would you have any reason not to believe his account when its emins camp who actually made money off this tape!
Think or dont post thanx
Originally posted by jimmy23
[B]wow, such a vast quantity of BS here, where can i start?
“so what would you “the wc haters” what would you have done, if you didnt even want to spar your junior, but he wanted to hurt you to build his rep!?”
I would have beat the crap out the guy in front of me as quick as i could if i was able to, as any half way smart fighter woould. MAybe you should just stand there and let the attacker beat you to death, eh?
“On the other hand Cheung went to his back, neutralized Emin and held off being attacked by Emins krew.”
No, Cheung tried to make a beginners mistake and roll over to his stomach to get up. Emein, with no submission experience, held him on his back instead of taking the armbar that was offered or taking his back and getting the choke. Both guys looked completely helpless on the ground, although emin had a tiny bit of skill.
" Cheung neutralised the problem in such a way as he didn’t get arrested,"
No he didnt ! He got beat down and was helpless, if all he had wanted to do was nuetralize Emin he could have it by pulling gaurd and tying emin up. He was lost, totally lost on the ground, at one point hes on the ground, both his arms out straight, no idea at all as to how to protect himself.
“if cheungs statements real how many real martial artists could defuse that situation?.”
You defuse a situation by KOing the attacker. To just let a guy beat you is not “defusing the situation”
“but in cheungs defence he said he didnt even try”
Yea, thats the oldest excuse in the book, lol@ you!
The amount of jockriding and excuse making on this thread is incredible, you guys need to wake up an rewatch the clip. seriuosly, even a three month groundfighter would have done a lot better than the “grandmaster” did. Its posts like these that hurt the kung fu community in the eyes of MMA people, just foolish, silly , clutching at straws to defend an idol. [/B]
so he got beat down?? he said emin didnt even connect punches in fact he said emin had no punching base, and then suppossedly but noone bothered to check before mouth****ting he said when they left he took more photos and taught the rest of the seminar
you look at it like something happenned commonsence dictates all he did was roll with emin and emin tried, cheung said the punches didnt connect and cheung didnt use a offensive attitude, some of you prolly never been in a group fight because im no soldier but cheungs account makes sence!.
Hey Diego…*******…I trained in William Cheung’s camp before seeing the tape footage…I can tell u that what his camp told me back in 92 and discuss does not coincede with any of Cheung’s new interview. And if u look back to previous interviews regarding the incident the story has changed over and over and over again! This is the first time I’ve heard WILLIAM claim to have use bil sao to deflect the mounted punches ETC. U sir are a MORON.
The fact is he got taken down and slapped around a bit! As a martial artists there is no defense or explanation other than yeahhhhh I got beat! Anyone that teaches REAL FIGHTING would teach a strike first strike hard philosophy…or take them down then kick em.
Read this…now whass the problem???
Also check this out
http://members.tripod.com/~Wing_Chun/
“In 1957 another early student of Yip Man’s, William Cheung, immigrated to Australia. On the way there an incident occurred when he locked himself in the sailor’s cabin and fought more than 10 sailors. This got into all the newspapers and so Wing Chun was even known in Australia then. About a year later, Bruce Lee left for the United States.
I guess the HK newspapers are not a reliable enough source for you. Plus, I heard about this incident from Duncan Leung’s own mouth. when I re-introduced them to each other in 1984. Duncan Leung was on the ship when the fight occured and witnessed it.
I’d think that an 18 year old kid fighting 10 or more grown men while a knife is stuck in his back has to have a little fighting skill. Ya think?
That’s why Bruce Lee idolized William Cheung.”
YEAHHHHHHHHH RITEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
Diego,
I’m taking my information from the Cheung interview that was posted here. Chuengs TWC is probably very good and I’ve heard some nice things about him, but he screwed up during that fight. Heck in my opinion he screwed up when he did that interview for the magazine that Boztepe was carrying.
do you people know what a traditional challenge is? a gentlemans challenge…BOOM EMIN FLIPPED SAID NO WE FIGHT ON SOME HAN ISLAND ****
Too bad for Chueng that his challenger didn’t have that in mind but that’s the way the world works. I hope GM Chueng has learned this lesson and tries to pass it on to his disciples.
“cheung put out a letter to the wing chun gms for a traditional challenge..emin who had no right took that challenge”
so cheung lost becuase Emin didnt follow CMA protocol? Thats is laughable!
“Think or dont post thanx”
Oh, Im thinking, Im thinking that a lot of CMA guys will make any excuse to defend their idols, even after seeing the weak self defense skills of a “grandmaster”
“he said emin didnt even connect punches in fact he said emin had no punching base,”
uh, did you watch the film? I saw three good punches connect. But then again, I judge professional MMA matches, so Im used to watching real fights, as opposed to others, who probably arent used to seeing what real fights consist of.
“some of you prolly never been in a group fight because”
actually, ive been in several during my bouncing days, but thats beside the point, becuase this wasnt a group fight, it was a one on one stomping
"commonsence dictates all he did was roll with emin and emin tried, "
he didnt just roll, he made a lot of amatuerish attempts to defend himself, only emins lack of submission knowledge kept Cheung from getting his arm broke or choked out.
You guys kill me, you really do, in the face of direct evidence you still refuse to believe what your eyes show you.
A question I wish GM Chueng would address is…
Does the fact that rooting didn’t work because of the slippery surface of the fighting environment diminish the importance of a rooted stance?