http://www.enteract.com/~weishaar/martial/docs/cheung_attack
Hmmmmm 2000 words, going from one excuse to another, inetersting.
He has certainly lost face. From their persepective I think they hoped the article would patch up the damage caused, but anyone independent from the WC world can see this article just makes him look at lot worse.:rolleyes:
what an article
it doesnt matter the circumstances and who was conspiring against who. the POINT is that when he was confronted and attacked he went down and was defeated(now dont you think that a GRANDMASTER would not allow this to happen to him?) I apologize if this offends the wing chun community but what I saw was no more edited than the zapruder film(kennedys assasination). you have a guy attacking another guy and beating him senslessly. what is the term i keep hearing in wing chun and JKD? “always be ready”?
i think that emin boeztepe made himself less than admirable with his attack on cheung. HOWEVER, if cheung being the grandmaster was as good as he claimed he was then he should have been able to teach emin a lesson.
anyway there is my two cents worth.
Many Respects,The Willow Sword
"it doesnt matter the circumstances and who was conspiring against who. "
Oh, don’t be ridiculous.
Hey Zeus, doesn’t anyone here have any common sense? A sudden suprise attack from someone right next to you is about the worst 1on1 nightmare scenario I can envision for anyone. I don’t care if you’re a grandmaster or what - that’s bad news.
The logical extension of this kind of ‘thinking’ is that a “real” master can never be killed, because when a sniper behind him blows off his head with a 30-06 from 100 yards away, his wing chun should have given him a way out.
Kung fu is a great fighting art (or rather, a great collection of fighting arts), but it’s not magic.
qoute from article
“He was struggling like a wounded mule because he had no countering
technique against the headlock.”
uh, watch the fim again, there wasnt even a good headlock, Cheung tried to grab onto Emins head and got swept and dumped.
Both these guys are punks, apologies to the wing tsun people.
well thats the point Chang ole buddy
the title of grandmaster and claims of invincibility and whatever doesnt take away from the FACT that you could get “TAKEN OUT” at the least expected moment. like i said"always be ready"
its the wild wild west brotha. the wild wild west.
many respects,The Willow Sword
Problem is..Emin came at him straight on and told Cheung he had 3 seconds before he came! Regardless of 3 seconds or not, he came at him from the FRONT and Cheung was teaching a seminar where one might expect that his reflexes would be SHARPER from doping Chi sao and whatever the hell else he was teaching that day. To have ****ty reflexes like that is no excuse!
I may as well let it be known I haven’t read the article or seen the video - all my info is third hand.
Yeah, if he had 3 seconds to be ready and was attacked from the front, there should have been some decent defense.
the video
ive seen it and it is self explanatory.
Many Respects,,The Willow Sword
mcdojo.com, front page..vid is as clear as it gets!
A sudden suprise attack from someone right next to you is about the worst 1on1 nightmare scenario I can envision for anyone. I don’t care if you’re a grandmaster or what - that’s bad news.
But that’s the thing it wasn’t what I’d call a surpise attack..
He(Boztepe) said, “No, no, no, I want to challenge you.”
Also…
"When I started the second sort of technique drill, he came over again,
and I noticed there’s about 10-15 people walking behind and around him. Andas soon as he came up, they went and formed a circle around us. And he said, “I want to fight you now.” And I said, “Well, that’s different. You said you wanted to spar and now you want to fight.” I said, “Let’s do it after class.” And he began mumbling something, and I said, “Look, you know, I granted you the fight after the class. And strictly speaking, you’re not even in my seniority.”
While a master of WC, Cheung is about as dumb as the dead TKD when it comes to the real world, because right after the above exchange…
“So I walked away, but I knew he more or less was going to try something. So after I walked away, the third step he rushed in and threw a round punch with his right arm.”
I hope Cheung has wised up to the ways of the world since then.
" A sudden suprise attack from someone right next to you is about the worst 1on1 nightmare scenario I can envision for anyone"
it wasnt a surprise, take 5 minutes and read the article
Both of them are skilled guys but you wouldn’t think so from the video.
Why is it that skilled guys can sometimes lose the plot? I suppose because they can where others can’t.
i dont care who said what, but lets say cheungs story is true, “and you the haters are cheung!”.
he said boztepe didnt land one shot, and cheung blocked them all!. and all cheung did was do the headlock and threw some knees?.
I cant dl the video from mcdojo it wont come in, and i have seen the blurry one awhile back… for those who have seen, does boztepe hit him with shots? when he is mounted or is he just pummelling and not making contact?.
Now Technical question, you have twenty people surrounding you, and in your mind you doubt they will kill you, but we all know how the mobmentality gets when **** gets chaoitic, like if i was cheung and i knew i could stomp boztepe, but he has twenty guys with him, i would be cautious, especially as im in a foriegn land without a business permit and teaching a seminar to a mixed ma group!, so i dont know who has my back or whatnot!.
He told em that they would spar after class, he wanted to fight, cheung was talking about a open challenge to test skill to see who is better, emin just wanted to build face!.
so if all thats real and im cheung and this junior nobody steps to me with 20 guys I Would do the same as cheung just defend myself and try not to work emin to much so his boys dont get ****ed and jump in…DO YOU KNOW HOW HARD THAT IS, HAVE YOU EVER TRY TO ARREST A DRUNK FRIEND CALMY WITHOUT ****ING HIM OFF WHEN HE IS SPAZZING OUT?.
So lets say its true cheungs story, as a gm in wc he should had the skill to trap and arrest boztepe…but to arrest without hurting or inflaming emins crowd, i imagine would be **** hard!
so what would you “the wc haters” what would you have done, if you didnt even want to spar your junior, but he wanted to hurt you to build his rep!?>
It’s really not about the effectivness of different Wing Chun lineages, but about how a respected GM missed signals that were the size of the Hollywood sign lit up in pink neon. If you read the article Cheung doesn’t take Emin very seriously and acts like it’s somekind of challenge from a Run Run Shaw movie. Many think that just because they have good technique, are good in the kwoon/dojo that they’ll be safe in the world. By his own account of the seminar event Cheung is the poster boy for how not to handle stand up aggression. Doesn’t mean he’s not a good TWC man or a bad TWC instructor, but he’s not the last word on street combatives.
OK OK I hear you all! But I’m prepared to give Cheung the benefit of the doubt because;
- we weren’t there, and we are never going to be able to get the REAL story;
- this thread doesn’t have more much to add than the other gazillion of them about this subject;
- I practise WC!
So, I’m with Diego! Cheung neutralised the problem in such a way as he didn’t get arrested, nobody got seriously hurt and he didn’t have to stop the seminar…
Though I would have preferred to have done it in a rather different way!
BTW, haven’t checked out the WC forum yet this morning, but there was an interestingly and newly constructive thread starting up over there on the same subject yesterday. Don’t know if the venerable mods will have shut it yet, but please come on over if you are really interested in what the WCers think of it and don’t just intend to flame!
question then, who does have the technical sence for that type of situation.. lets say cheung was telling full truth, so he did eyegouge emin sweeped him then punted his temple, then emins boy jumped in cuz he doesnt want cheung to keep stomping him, another guy jumps in, then a seminar student and one of cheungs guys jump in to try and stop it, they get hit, the guys wife jumps in…thiers either a gangfight ensues and cheung and boztepe are going to jail as the masterminds!.
So taking egos out of it, whos who etc. if cheungs statements real how many real martial artists could defuse that situation?.
Following folk wisdom for mass attacks if Cheung took out Emin the rest would just be in shock and easily handled.
On the other hand Cheung went to his back, neutralized Emin and held off being attacked by Emins krew. So in light of that I guess the BJJ guys have the right idea for handling mass attacks after all. Thus making BJJ the most effective art for one on one and multiples on one. So ipso facto, BJJ Rules and Kung Fu sucks.
Here is my opinion on the Incident.
BOTH parties did not act correctly or show proper skill and respect.
And I think to a degree both now regret that it ever happened.
It is also my personal opinion that 1 situation cannot show proper skill or superiority of skill on any Party.
I think the best would be to bury that Video and erase all memories of that event.
It happened many years ago, and both parties have advanced their skills to the current level.
As was said in the Lion King.
Simba: “What did you hit me for”
Monkey: " What does it matter it is i the past".
Simba: " But it still hurts."
Monkey: " Remember the pain and learn from it."
Peace.
LOL at Rogue!
Shadow D, wassup?! You’ve been conspicuous by your absence for a while…
BTW, checked the WC forum and the venerable Sihing73 or someone has, in their infinite wisdom decided to delete the thread… so maybe, as intelligent discussion is too much to hope for on this subject… you should all feel free to dis the whole of WC theory, history, practice, practitioners ad nauseam, ad infinitum…!:rolleyes: