why the hell is there a distinction between CMA and MMA?

Wai Jia: The Kung Fu Forum Kung Fu Forum
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<rant>

simple question, but i haven’t heard anyone ask it in the past many months, so i’ll ask it here: why is there a distinction between CMA and MMA? one can do just CMA and be a CMArtist, and one can do several arts, none of which are chinese, and be a MMartist. one can also do several arts, one of which is chinese, and be both CMA and MMA. what’s the problem?

i do wing tsun, but i also do muay thai and escrima, and every now and then in sparring i’ll throw in some grappling when i have an opening i know i can take. i’m a CMArtist at heart because wing tsun is my core, but i’ll be ****ed if i’m not a MMArtist to boot.

WD does shuai chiao amongst his muay thai, etc., same goes for him.

Sevenstar does mostly JMA, but he adds muay thai and some shuai chiao, amongst about 17 other arts, to the mix. same for him.

so many have thrown their weewee into the big ****ing match over Onassis. know what? he’s a CMArstist. know what else? he’s an MMArtist. know what else? it doesn’t ****ing matter. he trains hard, like Sevenstar and WD do, like MP and MK do, like i assume KF and Abel also do, so what’s the problem?

le sigh.

</rant>

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Is Shaolin Do a MMA if they use karate stuff?

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You and some people here know CMA are and can be good, but I don’t know if the big name guys in Pride or UFC are doing CMA or not. I don’t hear about CMA in MMA much so I guess probably lots of people don’t know about them or think they are inferior( 2000 years of Muay Thai warfare combined with BJJ for the ground vs. dead kungfu systems that still use forms) . What do most MMA people think of Tae Kwon Do? More sparring than “kungfu”?

4

I was trolling in that thread. Basedon the response though, I think I should get best troll in the KFO awards at the end of the year.

In the grand scheme of things - CMA, MMA, JMA, etc. doesn’t matter. MMA tends to denote people who crosstrain in various arts to make their style more complete. Can you be a CMA and an MMA simultaneously? sure. I think part of the problem is that some people get obsessed with their connotation and it’s accomplishments, i.e. CMA getting hyped up because O won in UFC. That’s great, but they neglect the fact that he’s also trained in many other things. He’s a martial mutt also - MMA. It just so happens that his foundation is FMA and CMA.

The distinction between a pure CMA and a MMA is that the CMA usually is not crosstraining, and if he is, it’s in another CMA. These two parties have different points of view when it comes to the subject of training and fighting, as is constantly pointed out on KFO.

5

Originally posted by backbreaker
You and some people here know CMA are and can be good, but I don’t know if the big name guys in Pride or UFC are doing CMA or not. I don’t hear about CMA in MMA much so I guess probably lots of people don’t know about them or think they are inferior( 2000 years of Muay Thai warfare combined with BJJ for the ground vs. dead kungfu systems that still use forms) . What do most MMA people think of Tae Kwon Do? More sparring than “kungfu”?

here’s the big MMA question. If you train in TKD, can you use it effectively? If so, then prove it. If you do and can, they will respect what you do. Even if you can’t, they will respect you more for at least trying.

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7* – best single act of trolling, perhaps. but if you want any lifetime achievement awards, you **** well better work on your consistency. you post too much good stuff to ever be a real troll. :stuck_out_tongue:

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RTB, no love for me?

I’m a MMA who got converted to SC. How’s that for being troll fodder?

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jeez, crippy, WD has a busted toe, so i wanted to make him feel better by including him. if it makes you feel better, i’ll write you up, too:

<ahem>

“crippy does lotsa arts, shuai chaio being one of them. that makes him CMA and MMA, also.”

happy now? :wink:

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My first MA was okinawan karate when I was like 10 years old, took it for 3 to 4 years. Then I took a few months of akido, and then a few months of judo in highschool, then went to college and quit. Now I train Wing Chun, and Taiji chuan Yang family, so I am now a CMA or MMA?

I agree there are no superior systems; there are superior fighters. If you train hard and keep in good shape you will be good at MA.

[side note]
Some systems are ridiculus compared to others, but the above statement IMHO is true to almost all modern martial arts.
[/side note]

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well, i practice some of the stuff I learned at the last kwoon i was a member of, southern shaolin and north shaolin cma, I now study wing chun and Yang Taijiquan and explore general concepts of martial arts.

so, i mix my cma! :eek:

which technically makes me an mma guy, but i don’t go for the endless ground game stuff.

when i do standard workout i even lift some, do the eliptical and hit the heavy bags a la boxing style.

it’s all good, everything brings something to the table even competitive wushu!

I’m 40 in a short while, so there isn’t much in the way of competitive fighting left for me.

still… hmmmmm :smiley:

cheers

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I practice one art, and its chinese. but its constantly changing. our instructor takes the old idea of a young tree (and no I dont do shaolin do ;)) a lot more literally than most- if someone comes to class who also does BJJ, he is encouraged to share what he knows (unless his BJJ instructor has a problem with it of course), and if it works, we incorporate it into our syllabus. same with any art. we have adopted muay thai style roundhouse kicks because they are more effective than most. we use a lot of western boxing techniques because again, they are proven to be effective. is this a MMA or CMA? the whole idea of kung fu is that it evolves to be as effective as possible.

I think honestly that Bruce Lee hit it on the head with his philosophy that a good MAist uses what works, regardless of where it comes from. people these days sweat the little things such as names far too much.

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The answer can be summed up in one word RTB: Xenophobia

The CMA guys refuse to even consider anything that’s not Chinese.

The MMA crowd considers BJJ, Boxing, Muay Thai, and Wrestling, but for the most part refuse to consider any other arts.

Me? I’ve been beating up my Boxing classmates with Beng Chuan, and I plan on beating up my SC friends with Muay Thai. If they throw better than me, I’ll drag them down and choke 'em out.

I’m real lucky in that my SC coach is very open to Muay Thai and BJJ and my Vale Tudo coach is very open to Shuai Chiao and the other CMA tricks I use. Both help me intergrate what the other is teaching me. It really does make me feel blessed to have 2 coaches with such open minds.

So right now let me give a big shout to Joe Judt and Miguel Torres.

13

MMA for sure. Kl’s history sounds alot similar to mine…mainly a combination of various cmas but will for sure utilise whatever tech/stlye/aspect I find complimentary…definately consider self both cma and mma practioner…keeping in mind that they (debateably )n all originated from cma and shaolin but have scince morphed in form and philosophy…it’s harder to unlearn something than it is to wait it out aND GO STYLE BY STYLE..ESPECIALLY When heady contradictory philosophy is an aspect…

On my tkd base…good call earlier…You’re right…alot of cma’s, especially when you’re talking shaolin have this no sparring thing as habit that can be a bit a bit of btch…but from lesson 1 in tkd I was sparring black belts…I love that sit…same with aikido etc…in there from day one…I’m not nearly good enough and have no “karate” training perse..go figure that I got offered a job instructing Gokanryu karate??? I guess he just figured that fundementals would cover me…at the time I was studying at a shaolin kungfu school..and gotta agree again…When doing cma its different concepts, applications and philosophies so mixing simultaeous or adjacent karate training is just selling each short, so I knocked it back…almost now regretably.

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Originally posted by Kung Lek

I’m 40 in a short while, so there isn’t much in the way of competitive fighting left for me.

sure there is. I know someone who had a full contact match as a 50th b-day present to himself. I also know a 50 year old who competes with the masters and with the young guys in judo.

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Originally posted by SevenStar
[B]

sure there is. I know someone who had a full contact match as a 50th b-day present to himself. I also know a 50 year old who competes with the masters and with the young guys in judo. [/B]

Yeah, but he might be an anomaly. How many other guys do you know who have completed the entire Golden Bell training regimen?

It’s not something I’d put myself through. That’s for damn sure.

I figure I got until 35 to get my full contact competition record in. After that, I’m just SOL.

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good point. The judoka is another tough bastid. Still, you’ve got until at least 40.

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not sayin i couldn’t, just saying there’s not a lot of opportunities to do so for me and the training schedule and commitment level is high for comp fighting.

to go into toughmans and hobby fighting is just a waste of time and overpopulated with idiots imnsho and point fighting is about as thrilling as dry toast for me. :smiley: dull stuff it is.

leave that stuff to the younger guys, but even Larry Holmes retired at forty and that mans could beat the bejesus out of most men walking cma, mma or what have you. :smiley: (go larry!)

cheers

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Originally posted by seven star

here’s the big MMA question. If you train in TKD, can you use it effectively? If so, then prove it. If you do and can, they will respect what you do. Even if you can’t, they will respect you more for at least trying.

My question is, prove it to who? To some judges, and fans, and etcetra in a state competetion? At a regional competetion? To someone in a National competition? Or prove it on TV in Pride, UFC, King of the Cage? To the martial arts world at large? Is proving it to the guy whose arse you sent to the hospital for attacking you,ok???

I was just curious because ok for instance you, I mean I don’t know who you are or anything about you. And that is solely because I’ve never meet you, trained with you, or fought with you. And you seem as your a pretty good sportfighter right? Maybe you have some fight records and matches material somewhere…but I’ve never seen them, plus couldn’t care. Maybe I have some fight records somewhere, and you’ve never seen them, and probalby you couldn’ give a shiot. So I mean, what are you getting at?

I mean maybe you, or joe, or any other matial artisit prove yourself on UFC, and that is a good thing, money, fame, ego, etc…but what about the prison community,do you want us to prove it in prisons and stuff? I mean, most people at Chino couldn’t give a fark about UFC,and they would probably fare pretty well in it.

Anyways, Jus fuggin wit ya.

Tao

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“prove it”

To most of us in the MMA community, it’s more about you actually making use of what you were taught, working successfully against an opponent who wants to take your head off. If you can do it outside of the ring (i.e. you bounce or beat up schmucks in an alleyway like a vigilante) and have it documented, more power to you. You’ve “proven it.”

If you can’t do such things for fear of legal reprocussions or lack of opportunity, the ring is the best substitute. It’s not about winning a tournament, it’s about using what you can under controlled circumstances with a resisting opponent. I don’t care what the claim is, if you can do it and have proof of it, we will respect you. If you can just walk into a judo shiai (or hell, I might begin to belive if you can use it in randori) and demonstrate that your horse can stop a shoot, you’ve “proven it”.

This goes for other claims like multiple opponents, weapons (read: dogbrothers), inch power, etc. We just want an independent record that documents an achievement. That’s what what we mean when we say “have you proven it?”

I honestly don’t know where many CMAs get this warped idea that “proving it” means you need a trophy. We just want verification, not heresay. Maybe it’s a bit unfair, but to be honest there’s been so many frauds from the traditional camp that it’s stupid NOT to request some sort of proof.

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To whomever is bustin your balls about your style. MMA guys tend to be the put up or shut up variety. If you tell me your style would simply sidestep to avoid a double leg, then show me. If you claim you can do it, you’ll get called on it.

Do you have to? Nah. But so many TMA talk about how the MMA community is always bashing their style - when you look at some of them, it’s not hard to understand why. Secret this, too deadly that, I have an undefeated grandmaster, etc. People want to ride on the claims their style makes, but will not try and find out themselves.

Ultimately, you really only have to prove anything to yourself, but if you won’t put up, then you can’t even do that, right?