WaterDragon why don’t you compete in the ufc? You could be like that 21 year old Judo guy who recently competed and won and showed them some Judo techniques. Or that Yoshida guy. Instead you would show them some Shui Chiao or beng quans or whatever, and people would worship you (for awhile).
That’s what I tried telling the internal guys. But most of them refuse to do anything about it. They want all the bashing to go away without doing anything (even putting video of themselves sparring). And than they say they would fight if they didn’t have to use gloves or make up various excuses, or say video evidence of fighting would not exist because someone would die or something. I think the “Neija” community represents the worste of the cma crop including the most chi huggers.
crip-
there’s frauds in all camps. Probably just as likely to be as many teaching poor material in the mma market as the tma one.
not even wanting to go into the esoteric practices associated with tma which revile violence and the arts become a form of self cultivation gradually moving the student towards more of lifestyle practice than that of competitive fighter.
it’s the natural course of things. You don’t see to many tma walking around with cauliflower ears and slurred speech from being punch drunk one time too many, that’s for sure.
cheers
Kung Lek (and others)–
That’s certainly true. But the one great thing about ring records are that they ARE verifiable. If someone tells me they’re a black belt in Judo or knocked a man out in the ring, it’s a simple matter of research to confirm and deny.
As for the esoteric practices, that’s not really my bag, but it’s also not something I rag on until you start making claims like Ling Kong Jin. Furthermore, if you wish to see martial arts as self-cultivation, more power to you. Just don’t tell me you’d stop my hook with a tiger strike to the chest, if you haven’t actually managed to do so on the street or in an approximation thereof.
(Note: that was a made up example, before anyone jumps on my case. 
)
Let’s put it this way, I’ve put a lot of time and energy to gain the ring skills I have. It’s simply insulting for someone who hasn’t gotten the same skills for any number of reasons (guts, too deadly) to try to tell me how it’s done. I don’t tell Master Wang or Yoshida how to throw people, for example. I shut up and listen to anyone who has experience in the ring or the street.
And yes, there are risks, Kung Lek. It’s understandable that you want to avoid such things. It’s not a weakness of character if you don’t do the things necessary to satisfy the requirement of “proof”. But at the same time, don’t tell people who are striving to meet that end that it “doesn’t mean anything”.
Just a general rant.
nevermind seven,im not sure you understood my point. but as you have answered i guess somewhat,however, my first post didn’t make much sense anyways…
what you were speaking of was strictly the mma community,but what does this community consist of?
but with what you have answered…are you telling me that people actually come up to you during the day and bust your balls about the style or styles you play,or do you as an mmaer or whatever, actually go up to people and say that…i practice different arts but don’t go up to people and bust there balls about it. so what do you mean?
in any event, i never have really understood the point of this whole mma thing vs tma thing anyways,fighting is about speed, power, timing,no matter what the style, no matter what the event, no matter who the person,if you want to kick someone hard enough to hurt them you have to be able to react quicker than them, or be able to wear some beatings and then still react at some point quicker than them,if you want to punch same thing, if you want to trap same thing, if you want to grapple same thing…any good fighter from any style knows that for fighting there is a time for everything. When it is time to punch punch, when it is time to kick, kick, when it is time to trap, do so, when it is time to shoot,then freaking shoot so hard that as soon as the mid of the guys back hits the concrete, your elbow has cracked his adams apple, and splattered his head on the concrete…then ground and pound…then choke him out…and back, and to the left.
rocekt scence it hard
WD – xeno is spot on. you saying that got me thinking about fear – fear of being proven wrong, inadequate, or simply unable to do in an uncontrolled environment what you’ve been practicing for the past x-number of years against friendly opponents. that, and a general fear of having someone shoot in and take your ass to the ground before he starts pulping your mug. 
btw – sorry about the toe “jab,” but crippy was just askin for it. 
tao yin – proving should only be to yourself, as a matter of being honest with yourself. a math equation or a scientific hypothesis isn’t valid until scrutiny happens. same with a technique or ability. many wing chun people (not this one ;)) are notorious for thinking their bong sau can stop anything. anyone that tells me this simply gets my one suggestion – block a thai round kick with it, tell me if either your forearm or face/body survives unscathed. never do i get a “good idea” as a response. it’s always, “i know it can do it, and that’s all i need.” anyone who’s FELT (not seen, but felt, even if only through holding thai kick shields for someone) knows such a belief to be bull****, but those who haven’t usually trust their own guess and don’t actually test it. thus, they think they know, but they fail to test it, and by that, they aren’t being truly honest with themselves about the technique. competition is a valid format to test what you know in a semi-controlled environment (ref, ring doctor, corner trainers with a towel ready to throw, etc.) against someone who’s just as eager to test his own stuff. and it’s a simple way to find out just how solid a bong sau really is.
rub the buddha,
i totally understand. if everyone is basically saying that tma/cma means that you have never tested it and yo go around saying bong saus work against thai kicks, (people actually say this?) im too deadly, i got dim mak, and i kill people,and never having tested any of it,then fark cma and tma…on the other hand, if doing mma means that you have never been in a street fight and either injured someone or got injured, but you have been in lots of ring fights and your the coolest, then fark that too…also if being an mmaist means that you truly believe punching the throat is a waste of time,then fark that too.
'tis correct. and don’t forget the proverbial “been accosted by a low-level threat who really doesn’t warrant getting the shat beat out of him” – the type of threat that warrants softer restraints. a drunk on the street can be a great threat, but if someone is so sloshed that they struggle stand, yet he or she still picks a fight with you, putting fist through nose really isn’t the best idea. tie 'em up and call the po-po, but don’t break someone that doesn’t warrant a breaking.
Originally posted by Unmatchable
WaterDragon why don’t you compete in the ufc? You could be like that 21 year old Judo guy who recently competed and won and showed them some Judo techniques. Or that Yoshida guy. Instead you would show them some Shui Chiao or beng quans or whatever, and people would worship you (for awhile).
Are you being sarcastic, or do you really think that a 30 year old father of 2 who works 12 hour days and is lucky to get in 8 hours of training a week can just walk into the UFC and be competetive?
Also, I don’t want anyone to worship me. That’s not how I am.
Crip-
I don’t know if the ring is the best place to proove anything to be honest. I can think of more than one or two boxers who rose through the ranks by fighting bums. lol
In actuality there is a lot of that. Put a guy through 10 fights with sub standard fighters to bring the record up to where the guy gets a shot at a real fighter. Not that uncommon, particularly in boxing.
The pool of terrific fighters is relatively small, and for the most part, none of us are gonna get that far. there is no proof, there is no victory in beating someone who doesn’t have the skills to match you.
Evenly matched fights are undeniably the best ones for the observer and for the fighters. A real test of skill. An underdog taking out a favourite is also some proof.
But the majority of it is a whole lotta meatsmacking.
Let’s face it, to find decent fighters is like finding american idols LOL. 100,000 people will try out, but in the end, maybe 4 of them are any good. An off day can take any of em out. the rest are there as filler so we the audience have something to watch while we wait for the real talent.
Anyway, it’s not for everyone, but the exercise is good for everyone.
cheers
Originally posted by Kung Lek
[B]Crip-
I don’t know if the ring is the best place to proove anything to be honest. I can think of more than one or two boxers who rose through the ranks by fighting bums. lol
[/B]
I think that depends on who you’re trying to prove something too KL. Me? I need to prove that my art is effective to myself. The ring is the perfect place for that.
(also the @ss whooping I’ll take if I slack off on my training or diet is the best motivator I have found yet )
The ring is your most likely source for fighting people from different backgrounds than yourself.
Beating someone who fights like you do is not the same as beating someone who fights completely different than you do.
Ropes or not, open competition is the best venue to see if you buttered your bread on the proper side of the training sandwhich.
So you fight in a ring but wont fight in the ufc? I didn’t know you have such a busy life. I’m bloody Sorry chap.
There’s a big difference between amateur and professional level fighting. I’m definately amateur level.
oh I see what your saying. What kind of ring do you fight in? San Shou, Muay Thai, mma, or what?
Right now we’re doing Boxing and I’m going to start doing some Judo shiai. It sounds like we’ll move up into Muay Thai and San Shou by the summer.
Eventually I’d like to compete in amateur MMA, but that would be a couple years into the future.
Is Judo Shai just Judo competition?
Do you use Shui CHiao in the Judo matches? And use xingyi in the boxing matches along with boxing? DO they allow that?
MMAist does whatever makes them competative for the ring fighting currently done.
CMAist does a Chinese martial art.
A MMAist might train in or have trained in a Chinese MA, if they use that specific Chinese fighting in their ring fighting they are a MMAist who used fighting that can be found in Chinese martial arts (training/fighting).
A Mixed Martial Artist trains to fight in a ring–organized situation.
A Mixed Martial Artist can do a Chinese Martial Art.
A Chinese Martial Artist did not train primarily for the ring.
A Mixed Martial Artist incorporates various martial sports or martial arts as part of their style.
A Chinese Martial Artist did not incorporate other Martial Arts as part of their style.
A Chinese Martial Artist that trains primarily to fight in the ring against other Chinese Martial Artist who train primarily to fight in a ring according to the line presented might be considered a Chinese Martial Sporter.
I No_Know about Chinese Martial Sports–San Da, San Shou, Shuai Chiao–(ring orienteds)~
Shuai Chiao might be Chinese only by the fact tha mongols were the ruling body of China at some point. But in Chinese History class I made a comprehension “Only the Chinese rule China”-by Ernie Moore Jr.
It means that whoever was ruling, they conformed to the China that was there before the current rule.~ A sport (gorey as it might have been) might have been popular and evolved-ish, but, Chinese? I No_Know.
San Da and San Shou.?.If they are old enough they are traditional by definition. But for how people tend to talk traditional would have a leader, ritual, and forms (at least non-weapon). Combining old picking the best~of it is a new thing not a continuation of the old. It might be a way to carry on the old, but with too much difference, then not the same. Therefore not the old…
Some might think.
Originally posted by TAO YIN
but with what you have answered…are you telling me that people actually come up to you during the day and bust your balls about the style or styles you play,or do you as an mmaer or whatever, actually go up to people and say that…i practice different arts but don’t go up to people and bust there balls about it. so what do you mean?
actually, yes, it happens. Online, you have TMA guys that make claims, some of which are unverifiable. you have MMA that do the same. In person, I’ve had TMA say things like “all boxers do is stand there and slug eachother” or “in three months of grappling, I could be as good as any bjj blue belt” and “in a real fight, you just kick them in the nuts or hit them in the throat” - outlandish things. but they can’t back any of them up. Why? No experience. There are closed minded people everywhere, but IME the TMA have bee more closed minded. I attribute that to experience. People with experience tend not to discount anything. If it works, use it. People who don’t say things like “all bozers do is stand there and slug eachother”.
in any event, i never have really understood the point of this whole mma thing vs tma thing anyways,
It’s just a point of view thing that’s all. different means to what should eventually be the same end. We just tend to quarrel over the means…
You don’t see to many tma walking around with cauliflower ears and slurred speech from being punch drunk one time too many, that’s for sure.
Cauliflower is just an occupational hazard of grappling. Not so much throwing, but definitely groundwork. It just is.
Punch drunk one to many times is an issue of how competitions can injure you. That’s a COMPETITION issue, not an ART issue.
Put on a competitive full contact circuit for Wing Chun or <<insert art here>> with the same depth and popularity as Boxing, wrestling or even MMA and you’ll have the same problems.